[Interest] CLion to replace QtCreator?

[Emre Besirik]

Hello list,
I know its a little bit off-topic but I was wondering your ideas about the unpleasentness of coding with QtCreator (no offense, I respect the creators of the original IDE but..)
So there is this; https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/CPP-318 <https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/CPP-318> (in case you didn’t know already) do you support it?
Do you also find it a littlebit unpleasent to code in QtCreator like me?
Does Qt plan to do something about this?
Does / Can Qt officially support and write a plugin for CLion maybe?

Regards,
Emre Beşirik
***@gmail.com

[Thiago Macieira]

Post by Emre Besirik
Do you also find it a littlebit unpleasent to code in QtCreator like me?
Does Qt plan to do something about this?

It would be more constructive if you explained what your issues are and what
you findto be unpleasant. Without that, nothing is ever going to happen.

But I have to say I don't feel any unpleasantness. Qt Creator is the best IDE
I've ever used. There are some things I'd do differently, but that's all. I
also expect that's how most Qt developers and especially the Qt Creator
developers feel, so it's highly unlikely we'll do a complete change of
direction.

Post by Emre Besirik
Does / Can Qt officially support and write a plugin for CLion maybe?

You can.

[Nikos Chantziaras]

Post by Thiago Macieira

Post by Emre Besirik
Do you also find it a littlebit unpleasent to code in QtCreator like me?
Does Qt plan to do something about this?

It would be more constructive if you explained what your issues are and what
you findto be unpleasant. Without that, nothing is ever going to happen.

I assume the same things as the rest of us, perhaps:

* Lack of auto-completion for connect().
* Very slow auto-completion.
* Generally auto-completion sometimes work, sometimes doesn't.
* "Find uses" doesn't work, so you have to grep to find uses.
* It gets very confused with smart pointers and templates in general.
* Sometimes doesn't highlight local uses.

This is the clang code model, and these things are a major PITA.

The Creator code model was excellent for C++98. The last few months, I
complete switched my projects to C++14, and that code model is now
useless, so clang is the only choice. And it's not very pleasant to work
with. In fact, I'd say it's very unpleasant.

[ekke]

Post by Nikos Chantziaras

Post by Thiago Macieira

Post by Emre Besirik
Do you also find it a littlebit unpleasent to code in QtCreator like me?
Does Qt plan to do something about this?

It would be more constructive if you explained what your issues are and what
you findto be unpleasant. Without that, nothing is ever going to happen.

* Lack of auto-completion for connect().
* Very slow auto-completion.
* Generally auto-completion sometimes work, sometimes doesn't.
* "Find uses" doesn't work, so you have to grep to find uses.
* It gets very confused with smart pointers and templates in general.
* Sometimes doesn't highlight local uses.
This is the clang code model, and these things are a major PITA.
The Creator code model was excellent for C++98. The last few months, I
complete switched my projects to C++14, and that code model is now
useless, so clang is the only choice. And it's not very pleasant to
work with. In fact, I'd say it's very unpleasant.
_______________________________________________
Interest mailing list
http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/interest

I'm using Qt Creator only for mobile app development

for me coming from Eclipse Momentics (BlackBerry 10, Qt 4.8 / Cascades)
I'm really missing:
* Tabs to edit files
* Running multiple mobile devices at the same time from inside Eclipse
with easy switching between Consol outputs etc
* Hiding all the translation stuff (ts, qm, lupdate, ...) by simply
adding the languages to a project
* no sync with underlying file-system to enable easy drag'n'drop of
ressources or src files
* and yes, auto-completion and refactoring of Eclipse is unmatched

on the other side I know QtCreator has to support much more different
targets compared with Momentics for Cascades or Android Studio for Android.
also my first steps with QtCreator to create new project and deploy to
Android and iOS devices went well - it worked out of the box.
I'll create feature requests, but at first will do some more work with
QtCreator to become more familiar

Now with qt.labs.controls in Qt 5.6 and starting with Qt 5.7 from my POV
Qt is a great way to develop mobile applications and they're really
looking great with Material Style. Also the new Startup /
ind.dev-license is attractive to motivate mobile developers to try out Qt.
Feedback I got was always, that it's hard to start with QtCreator coming
from Android Studio or Eclipse.
I'll blog about my experiences and provide recipes to make it easier for
mobile developers to start with Qt.
--
ekke (ekkehard gentz)

independent software architect
international development native mobile business apps
BlackBerry 10 | Qt Mobile (Android, iOS)

blog: http://ekkes-corner.org
apps and more: http://appbus.org
twitter: @ekkescorner
skype: ekkes-corner
LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/ekkehard/

[Nikos Chantziaras]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[Nikos Chantziaras]

I don't know what I'm doing wrong but the new compile-time-checked
syntax is auto-completed by my Qt Creator (that came with Qt 5.5.1) as
well :)

With the clang code model? (Which is the only even remotely useful
choice for modern C++.)

and you're a bit blunt on not recommending the older syntax.
Apparently you haven't spent enough time with QML.

QML is a run-time thing, so the new syntax doesn't apply. For C++ code,
the new syntax is better, and also mandatory for lambdas. You cannot use
the old syntax even if you wanted to.

[Emre Besirik]

BTW I think you are replying to the person instead of list address.
list can not see your replies if you dont send it to the list.

Regards,
Emre Beşirik

I don't know what I'm doing wrong but the new compile-time-checked
syntax is auto-completed by my Qt Creator (that came with Qt 5.5.1) as
well :)

With the clang code model? (Which is the only even remotely useful choice for modern C++.)

and you're a bit blunt on not recommending the older syntax.
Apparently you haven't spent enough time with QML.

QML is a run-time thing, so the new syntax doesn't apply. For C++ code, the new syntax is better, and also mandatory for lambdas. You cannot use the old syntax even if you wanted to.
_______________________________________________
Interest mailing list
http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/interest

[Emre Besirik]

Sorry forgot to mention this was meant for Alexey Rusakov :)


Regards,
Emre Beşirik

Post by Emre Besirik
BTW I think you are replying to the person instead of list address.
list can not see your replies if you dont send it to the list.
Regards,
Emre Beşirik

I don't know what I'm doing wrong but the new compile-time-checked
syntax is auto-completed by my Qt Creator (that came with Qt 5.5.1) as
well :)

With the clang code model? (Which is the only even remotely useful choice for modern C++.)

and you're a bit blunt on not recommending the older syntax.
Apparently you haven't spent enough time with QML.

QML is a run-time thing, so the new syntax doesn't apply. For C++ code, the new syntax is better, and also mandatory for lambdas. You cannot use the old syntax even if you wanted to.
_______________________________________________
Interest mailing list
http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/interest

[Diego Iastrubni]

Post by Thiago Macieira
But I have to say I don't feel any unpleasantness. Qt Creator is the best IDE
I've ever used. There are some things I'd do differently, but that's all. I
also expect that's how most Qt developers and especially the Qt Creator
developers feel, so it's highly unlikely we'll do a complete change of
direction.

Without trying to offence, "you need to walk around the neighborhoods" a
little. While QtCreator is definitely "cool" and very speedy, there are
some things I see in IntelliJ/AndroidStudio which I definitely miss in
QtCreator:

1. XML tags completion for known tags. This can be done for *.UI files,
and maybe some part of *.QS. Basic XML structure is already know - so even
for unknown XML variants - the IDE knows what tag to close.
2. Class implementations - for example, I derive from an interface and
pressing control+enter on the type will add missing methods.
3. When I define an inline class (Java, but can be done using lambda
expressions in C++), just pressing control+enter will write the code for
me. For example:

AlertDialog.Builder builder = new AlertDialog.Builder(this);
builder.setPositiveButton(android.R.string.ok, new ___

Pressing "control+enter" will create a new anonymous class which
derives new DialogInterface.OnClickListener()

4. When a method argument is an enum, code completion works on the
corresponding enum, and adds the needed type.
5. Automatically know how to modify R"code" for example here:
ListView mListView = findViewById(R.id.notifications_list_view);
it will suggest to typecast to ListView (to fix - again, control+enter).
6. While debugging the values of variables are displayed inside the text
editor, in light gray (no more looking for them in a panel).
7. When using connect, using Niko's example, I would like to type
connect(button, [clicked], this, [playTheFunkyMusic])
and QtCreator should automagically find the signals of button, and the
corresponding slots of "this". It used to work in ond style Qt4 signals,
but with modern connections, I need to type the whole type. Some signals
are hard to find, for example the "click()" signal from QButton comes from
QAbstractButton. This means that when an object "has/provides" a signal, I
need to guess the parent type which defined the signal in order connect it
(I did not have to know this in Qt4).
8. When I am lost "control+enter" usually fixe stuff for me.
9. Multiple cursors (see the demo on SublimeText's home page - its epic,
and Atom badly implements it),

Well basically, Android studio (and even XCode a little) helps me not
knowing the language by filling in the gaps for me. I know more C++ then
Java, but I am far more productive with Java - because the IDE does a lot
of heavy lifting.

Not saying that QtCreator is not good, but blindly claiming it's the best
is not always true. Its even possible that some things are working in
QtC4... I need to re-check at home. I should also open official feature
requests and not complaining on a ML. I agree.

[André Hartmann]

Hi all,

Post by Diego Iastrubni
1. XML tags completion for known tags. This can be done for *.UI files,
and maybe some part of *.QS. Basic XML structure is already know -
so even for unknown XML variants - the IDE knows what tag to close.

That would indeed be very cool.

Post by Diego Iastrubni
2. Class implementations - for example, I derive from an interface and
pressing control+enter on the type will add missing methods.

That already works if you right-click on the implementation class' name
and choose Refactor -> Insert Virtual Function of Base Classes.

You get same menu with Alt+Enter on the class name.

There are a lot more refactoring actions available, all context aware.
Maybe you need some time to explore them all.

Best regards,
Andre

[Emre Besirik]

XML tags completion for known tags. This can be done for *.UI files, and maybe some part of *.QS. Basic XML structure is already know - so even for unknown XML variants - the IDE knows what tag to close.
Class implementations - for example, I derive from an interface and pressing control+enter on the type will add missing methods.
AlertDialog.Builder builder = new AlertDialog.Builder(this);
builder.setPositiveButton(android.R.string.ok, new ___
Pressing "control+enter" will create a new anonymous class which derives new DialogInterface.OnClickListener()
When a method argument is an enum, code completion works on the corresponding enum, and adds the needed type.
ListView mListView = findViewById(R.id.notifications_list_view);
it will suggest to typecast to ListView (to fix - again, control+enter).
While debugging the values of variables are displayed inside the text editor, in light gray (no more looking for them in a panel).
When using connect, using Niko's example, I would like to type
connect(button, [clicked], this, [playTheFunkyMusic])
and QtCreator should automagically find the signals of button, and the corresponding slots of "this". It used to work in ond style Qt4 signals, but with modern connections, I need to type the whole type. Some signals are hard to find, for example the "click()" signal from QButton comes from QAbstractButton. This means that when an object "has/provides" a signal, I need to guess the parent type which defined the signal in order connect it (I did not have to know this in Qt4).
When I am lost "control+enter" usually fixe stuff for me.
Multiple cursors (see the demo on SublimeText's home page - its epic, and Atom badly implements it),

Search! (like spotlight search with just one shortcut key to open file or go to a particular location in your code):
search symbols
files in your project
search everywhere
you can lookout jetbrains IDEs for more examples
Smart code completion. and by smart I mean for instance; if I’m going to assign something to an int type do not suggest me different return types of functions or variables. do smart things like; if I’m creating/assigning a variable something for first time suggest me things like object initializations first depending on the object type. And try to do these without delays as much as possible. cache, index, think beyond the box.
Do things so obvious your self, do not wait for me to do.
tabs — the current working type of open documents are really annoying. if you have split view open, first you need to select the view you intend to change open document. I dont know how many times I’ve changed the non-intended document in workspace
ONE key to kill all other views and leave code windows open only (like distraction free mode of intellij)
go proactive, generate getters/setter and stuff like that.
have a dark UI mode :)
have tons of more keyboard shortcuts (check out intellij)
have a better user friendly UI

I’m sorry to say this but QtCreator is actually eons behind the current IDE trends and technology :(
Just checkout the comments at the link I shared in my first post, people are practically begging jetbrains to save themselves from QtCreator (no offense intended but this is the case for many people)
And I think Qt Company should just get rid of the denial of the world start to see beyond horizon and do something, revolutionize QtCreator or just do something like Google did for android studio and embrace/deal with jetbrains ide and fork a CLion custimized for Qt development. I dont see any other way :(

Regards,
Emre Beşirik
***@gmail.com

[Emre Besirik]

Post by Diego Iastrubni
Class implementations
As somebody wrote already, this refactoring already exists.
While debugging the values of variables are displayed inside the text editor, in light gray
You can hover the variables and see the current value.
Some signals are hard to find, for example the "click()" signal from QButton comes from QAbstractButton.
See http://s1.webmshare.com/JrdbJ.webm <http://s1.webmshare.com/JrdbJ.webm>
You mean like when you press ctrl-k in QtCreator which allows you to go to any class, file, method, or such just by typing its first few letters ?

it only searches for filenames, thats not what I meant only, if you could checkout any jetbrains product, you’ll see the huge difference.

You only offer mostly workarounds which are not the same. debugging values for instance; yes we can also see the values in the debug windows if we’d like to but its not the same, when it is shown inline you just need to look no other action required. QtCreator is not user friendly, its not designed in a user centric way. you always have to do ~3x more action to do the same things in QtCreator compared to modern IDEs.
A good IDE (I think) should avoid to make its users have to take their hand off the keyboard to reach the mouse or touchpad as much as possible, to do this you should have a perfect keybord shortcut system, which also should avoid to make its users to have multiple keystrokes (double esc and then something more etc.)
Jetbrains products are really engineered very well on their UI/UX part, if we can not have/afford an experienced UI/UX team of professionals then at least we should inspect what they (jetbrains and/or others) have done and learn from them then apply to QtCreator maybe?

Regards,
Emre Beşirik
***@gmail.com

[Jean-Michaël Celerier]

Post by Emre Besirik
it only searches for filenames, thats not what I meant only, if you could
checkout any jetbrains product, you’ll see the huge difference.

No it does not.
If you type :
"c NameOfMyClass"
it will look for a class.

If you type :
"m aMethodName"
it will look for a method.

If you type:
"git commit"
it will open the graphical commit window.

If you type :
"? QPushButton"
it will open the help for QPushButton

etc...

Post by Emre Besirik
Jetbrains products are really engineered very well on their UI/UX part,

if we can not have/afford an experienced UI/UX team of professionals then
at least we should inspect what they (jetbrains and/or others) have done
and learn from them then apply to QtCreator maybe?

This I agree with.

[Curtis Mitch]

Post by Emre Besirik
I’m sorry to say this but QtCreator is actually eons behind the current IDE trends and technology :(
people are practically begging jetbrains to save themselves from QtCreator (no offense intended but this is the case for many people)
And I think Qt Company should just get rid of the denial of the world start to see beyond horizon and do something, revolutionize QtCreator or just do something like Google did for android studio and embrace/deal with jetbrains ide and fork a CLion custimized for Qt development. I dont see any other way :(

Hahaaa! I especially like the “I don’t see any other way” part. Fantastic. Also, very, very cringe-worthy. Telling a company it’s in denial because it doesn’t fork your favourite IDE is... ridiculous. It sounds like you haven’t actually attempted to properly use Qt Creator (e.g. by saying that Locator “only searches for filenames”), and don’t intend on putting in any work yourself, even though it’s an open source project.

From: Interest [mailto:interest-bounces+mitch.curtis=***@qt-project.org] On Behalf Of Emre Besirik
Sent: Monday, 4 April 2016 4:22 PM
To: Jean-Michaël Celerier <***@gmail.com>
Cc: ***@qt-project.org
Subject: Re: [Interest] CLion to replace QtCreator?


On 04 Apr 2016, at 16:55, Jean-Michaël Celerier <***@gmail.com<mailto:***@gmail.com>> wrote:

Class implementations

As somebody wrote already, this refactoring already exists.
While debugging the values of variables are displayed inside the text editor, in light gray

You can hover the variables and see the current value.
Some signals are hard to find, for example the "click()" signal from QButton comes from QAbstractButton.

See http://s1.webmshare.com/JrdbJ.webm
Search! (like spotlight search with just one shortcut key to open file or go to a particular location in your code):

You mean like when you press ctrl-k in QtCreator which allows you to go to any class, file, method, or such just by typing its first few letters ?

it only searches for filenames, thats not what I meant only, if you could checkout any jetbrains product, you’ll see the huge difference.

You only offer mostly workarounds which are not the same. debugging values for instance; yes we can also see the values in the debug windows if we’d like to but its not the same, when it is shown inline you just need to look no other action required. QtCreator is not user friendly, its not designed in a user centric way. you always have to do ~3x more action to do the same things in QtCreator compared to modern IDEs.
A good IDE (I think) should avoid to make its users have to take their hand off the keyboard to reach the mouse or touchpad as much as possible, to do this you should have a perfect keybord shortcut system, which also should avoid to make its users to have multiple keystrokes (double esc and then something more etc.)
Jetbrains products are really engineered very well on their UI/UX part, if we can not have/afford an experienced UI/UX team of professionals then at least we should inspect what they (jetbrains and/or others) have done and learn from them then apply to QtCreator maybe?

Regards,
Emre Beşirik
***@gmail.com<mailto:***@gmail.com>

[NoMercy]

Post by Emre Besirik

Post by Emre Besirik
I’m sorry to say this but QtCreator is actually eons behind the current

IDE trends and technology :(

Post by Emre Besirik
people are practically begging jetbrains to save themselves from

QtCreator (no offense intended but this is the case for many people)

Post by Emre Besirik
And I think Qt Company should just get rid of the denial of the world

start to see beyond horizon and do something, revolutionize QtCreator or
just do something like Google did for android studio and embrace/deal with
jetbrains ide and fork a CLion custimized for Qt development. I dont see
any other way :(
Hahaaa! I especially like the “I don’t see any other way” part. Fantastic.
Also, very, very cringe-worthy. Telling a company it’s in denial because it
doesn’t fork your favourite IDE is... ridiculous. It sounds like you
haven’t actually attempted to properly use Qt Creator (e.g. by saying that
Locator “only searches for filenames”), and don’t intend on putting in any
work yourself, even though it’s an open source project.

Hey look I didn't start to offend anybody about their work, but just get
some realistic here;
1. Have you even try to read people's comments on that link I've shared?
(Yes they are practically begging JetBrains)
2. Have you ever used ANY JetBrains product before? for how long? then
you'll see there the huge difference between JOY of coding and JOB of
coding.
3. And yes I don't see any other way IF you want to be part of the solution
instead of being in denial!

"and don’t intend on putting in any work yourself, even though it’s an open
source project."
I would put my work if it would mean something; trying to make such
revolutionarising move on the existing QtCreator would practically
re-writing it all from scratch while there are more convinient ways such as
moving to intellij platform or just simply wrting a plugin for CLion maybe?

Regards,
Emre Besirik

[Curtis Mitch]

From: NoMercy [mailto:***@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 5 April 2016 2:34 PM
To: Curtis Mitch <***@theqtcompany.com>
Cc: ***@qt-project.org
Subject: Re: [Interest] CLion to replace QtCreator?

Post by Emre Besirik
I’m sorry to say this but QtCreator is actually eons behind the current IDE trends and technology :(
people are practically begging jetbrains to save themselves from QtCreator (no offense intended but this is the case for many people)
And I think Qt Company should just get rid of the denial of the world start to see beyond horizon and do something, revolutionize QtCreator or just do something like Google did for android studio and embrace/deal with jetbrains ide and fork a CLion custimized for Qt development. I dont see any other way :(

Hahaaa! I especially like the “I don’t see any other way” part. Fantastic. Also, very, very cringe-worthy. Telling a company it’s in denial because it doesn’t fork your favourite IDE is... ridiculous. It sounds like you haven’t actually attempted to properly use Qt Creator (e.g. by saying that Locator “only searches for filenames”), and don’t intend on putting in any work yourself, even though it’s an open source project.


Hey look I didn't start to offend anybody about their work, but just get some realistic here;

I’m not a Qt Creator developer, but if I were, it would be pretty funny to be told I was in denial. What are they in denial about, exactly?

1. Have you even try to read people's comments on that link I've shared? (Yes they are practically begging JetBrains)

I did read the bug report, yep. So what if they’re begging JetBrains? Rather than try to shame developers into converting one product into another, why not contribute specific features that you think are missing? Tell your friends commenting on that bug report that they can write a plugin for Qt Creator, and that it’s all open source.

2. Have you ever used ANY JetBrains product before? for how long? then you'll see there the huge difference between JOY of coding and JOB of coding.

No, and I have no plans to. I’m not arguing that JetBrains’ product doesn’t have good features.

3. And yes I don't see any other way IF you want to be part of the solution instead of being in denial!

Again, can you tell me what I’m in denial of? If I find something lacking with Qt Creator, I file a suggestion or fix it myself if it’s easy enough. That’s being part of the solution. Doing what you’re doing in the way you’re doing it is textbook “being part of the problem”.

"and don’t intend on putting in any work yourself, even though it’s an open source project."
I would put my work if it would mean something; trying to make such revolutionarising move on the existing QtCreator would practically re-writing it all from scratch while there are more convinient ways such as moving to intellij platform or just simply wrting a plugin for CLion maybe?

Why do you have to re-write Creator from scratch?

If you have a problem with the auto completion in Creator (or any other specific problem), file a bug report.

If you want there to be a plugin for CLion, write one. I’d bet a large sum of money that it’s not going to happen any other way. Plenty of external developers have contributed fixes and even entire plugins to Creator.

Regards,
Emre Besirik

[NoMercy]

*Sent:* Tuesday, 5 April 2016 2:34 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Interest] CLion to replace QtCreator?
On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Curtis Mitch <

Post by Emre Besirik
I’m sorry to say this but QtCreator is actually eons behind the current

IDE trends and technology :(

Post by Emre Besirik
people are practically begging jetbrains to save themselves from

QtCreator (no offense intended but this is the case for many people)

Post by Emre Besirik
And I think Qt Company should just get rid of the denial of the world

start to see beyond horizon and do something, revolutionize QtCreator or
just do something like Google did for android studio and embrace/deal with
jetbrains ide and fork a CLion custimized for Qt development. I dont see
any other way :(
Hahaaa! I especially like the “I don’t see any other way” part. Fantastic.
Also, very, very cringe-worthy. Telling a company it’s in denial because it
doesn’t fork your favourite IDE is... ridiculous. It sounds like you
haven’t actually attempted to properly use Qt Creator (e.g. by saying that
Locator “only searches for filenames”), and don’t intend on putting in any
work yourself, even though it’s an open source project.
Hey look I didn't start to offend anybody about their work, but just get
some realistic here;
I’m not a Qt Creator developer, but if I were, it would be pretty funny to
be told I was in denial. What are they in denial about, exactly?

That QtCreator is eons behind current technology and trends, isn't it very
obvious? I would say just checkout features of ANY JetBrains product but
you don't even intend to so you are in therefor denial. (Not personally you
but many people who are objecting these)

1. Have you even try to read people's comments on that link I've shared?
(Yes they are practically begging JetBrains)
I did read the bug report, yep. So what if they’re begging JetBrains?
Rather than try to shame developers into converting one product into
another, why not contribute specific features that you think are missing?
Tell your friends commenting on that bug report that they can write a
plugin for Qt Creator, and that it’s all open source.

I'm not trying to shame anyone, I'm simply trying to wake people up from
their sleep, trying to convince to look around instead of just accept what
you already have...

2. Have you ever used ANY JetBrains product before? for how long? then
you'll see there the huge difference between JOY of coding and JOB of
coding.
No, and I have no plans to. I’m not arguing that JetBrains’ product
doesn’t have good features.

If you accept that JetBrains products have some good features why not
implement those SOME of good features to our QtCreator?

3. And yes I don't see any other way IF you want to be part of the
solution instead of being in denial!
Again, can you tell me what I’m in denial of? If I find something lacking
with Qt Creator, I file a suggestion or fix it myself if it’s easy enough.
That’s being part of the solution. Doing what you’re doing in the way
you’re doing it is textbook “being part of the problem”.

The problem is the lacking things wont come without nothing short of a
revolution. it would take eons just to write whats lacking in QtCreator
(hence eons behind others) thats why I suggested a plugin or a fresh start
with intellij platform. besides it is The Official Qt Company product we
are talking about, while it is good to have the product as open source,
relying solely to contributors for improvement aspecially a revolutionary
and big ones as these is not right. Qt Company should step in, I believe
they are making enough money...

"and don’t intend on putting in any work yourself, even though it’s an
open source project."
I would put my work if it would mean something; trying to make such
revolutionarising move on the existing QtCreator would practically
re-writing it all from scratch while there are more convinient ways such as
moving to intellij platform or just simply wrting a plugin for CLion maybe?
Why do you have to re-write Creator from scratch?
If you have a problem with the auto completion in Creator (or any other
specific problem), file a bug report.

see my previous comment

Regards,

Emre Besirik

[Nuno Santos]

Post by Emre Besirik
people are practically begging jetbrains to save themselves from QtCreator (no offense intended but this is the case for many people)

Sorry to interfere here but I couldn’t read this without sharing my thoughts. Qt Creator is simply the most straightforward IDE around.

All IDE based in Java simply suck because they are all slow like a turtle. I personally hate any kind of Java based software because of the performance impact.

It is also a paradox a JET brain software using Java to support it. A JET brain cannot wait for Java to render. :)

[NoMercy]

I totally disagree with you here, JB products are way faster in code
completion for instance and WAAAAY smarter...

Post by Emre Besirik
people are practically begging jetbrains to save themselves from QtCreator
(no offense intended but this is the case for many people)
Sorry to interfere here but I couldn’t read this without sharing my
thoughts. Qt Creator is simply the most straightforward IDE around.
All IDE based in Java simply suck because they are all slow like a turtle.
I personally hate any kind of Java based software because of the
performance impact.
It is also a paradox a JET brain software using Java to support it. A JET
brain cannot wait for Java to render. :)
_______________________________________________
Interest mailing list
http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/interest

[Curtis Mitch]

From: NoMercy [mailto:***@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 5 April 2016 3:20 PM
To: Curtis Mitch <***@theqtcompany.com>
Cc: ***@qt-project.org
Subject: Re: [Interest] CLion to replace QtCreator?



On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Curtis Mitch <***@theqtcompany.com<mailto:***@theqtcompany.com>> wrote:


From: NoMercy [mailto:***@gmail.com<mailto:***@gmail.com>]
Sent: Tuesday, 5 April 2016 2:34 PM
To: Curtis Mitch <***@theqtcompany.com<mailto:***@theqtcompany.com>>
Cc: ***@qt-project.org<mailto:***@qt-project.org>
Subject: Re: [Interest] CLion to replace QtCreator?

Post by Emre Besirik
I’m sorry to say this but QtCreator is actually eons behind the current IDE trends and technology :(
people are practically begging jetbrains to save themselves from QtCreator (no offense intended but this is the case for many people)
And I think Qt Company should just get rid of the denial of the world start to see beyond horizon and do something, revolutionize QtCreator or just do something like Google did for android studio and embrace/deal with jetbrains ide and fork a CLion custimized for Qt development. I dont see any other way :(

Hahaaa! I especially like the “I don’t see any other way” part. Fantastic. Also, very, very cringe-worthy. Telling a company it’s in denial because it doesn’t fork your favourite IDE is... ridiculous. It sounds like you haven’t actually attempted to properly use Qt Creator (e.g. by saying that Locator “only searches for filenames”), and don’t intend on putting in any work yourself, even though it’s an open source project.


Hey look I didn't start to offend anybody about their work, but just get some realistic here;

I’m not a Qt Creator developer, but if I were, it would be pretty funny to be told I was in denial. What are they in denial about, exactly?

That QtCreator is eons behind current technology and trends, isn't it very obvious? I would say just checkout features of ANY JetBrains product but you don't even intend to so you are in therefor denial. (Not personally you but many people who are objecting these)


No one from The Qt Company had even replied before you told them that they’re in denial. The others who have replied are not employees of The Qt Company. They were also suggesting ways to achieve the things that you said were missing, not saying that there isn’t room for improvement. So, to summarise, you’re telling random people on a mailing list that they’re in denial over something that they never denied.


1. Have you even try to read people's comments on that link I've shared? (Yes they are practically begging JetBrains)

I did read the bug report, yep. So what if they’re begging JetBrains? Rather than try to shame developers into converting one product into another, why not contribute specific features that you think are missing? Tell your friends commenting on that bug report that they can write a plugin for Qt Creator, and that it’s all open source.

I'm not trying to shame anyone, I'm simply trying to wake people up from their sleep, trying to convince to look around instead of just accept what you already have...

Then you need to reconsider the way you communicate, because the replies you’re getting are a direct result of talking like you’re owed the world, when, in reality, you’ve put in no effort (be it Jira suggestions or patches) nor paid a dollar towards what you’re asking. I would be hard pressed to think of a less constructive way of generating interest in the things that you want than wording an email in the manner you have.


2. Have you ever used ANY JetBrains product before? for how long? then you'll see there the huge difference between JOY of coding and JOB of coding.

No, and I have no plans to. I’m not arguing that JetBrains’ product doesn’t have good features.

If you accept that JetBrains products have some good features why not implement those SOME of good features to our QtCreator?

It seems you’re not getting the point.


3. And yes I don't see any other way IF you want to be part of the solution instead of being in denial!

Again, can you tell me what I’m in denial of? If I find something lacking with Qt Creator, I file a suggestion or fix it myself if it’s easy enough. That’s being part of the solution. Doing what you’re doing in the way you’re doing it is textbook “being part of the problem”.

The problem is the lacking things wont come without nothing short of a revolution. it would take eons just to write whats lacking in QtCreator (hence eons behind others) thats why I suggested a plugin or a fresh start with intellij platform. besides it is The Official Qt Company product we are talking about, while it is good to have the product as open source, relying solely to contributors for improvement aspecially a revolutionary and big ones as these is not right. Qt Company should step in, I believe they are making enough money...


Oh dear.


"and don’t intend on putting in any work yourself, even though it’s an open source project."
I would put my work if it would mean something; trying to make such revolutionarising move on the existing QtCreator would practically re-writing it all from scratch while there are more convinient ways such as moving to intellij platform or just simply wrting a plugin for CLion maybe?

Why do you have to re-write Creator from scratch?

If you have a problem with the auto completion in Creator (or any other specific problem), file a bug report.

see my previous comment


I saw it.

Regards,
Emre Besirik

[Emre Besirik]

Post by NoMercy
That QtCreator is eons behind current technology and trends, isn't it very
obvious?

No! Absolutely not.
QtCreator is a really great IDE. Very lightweight, but still very powerful.
Simply using the "Esc" button is a single fantastic feature that I haven't
seen elsewhere.
And for the technology: CLion as well as QtCreator are using clang for the
code model (which is the heart of an IDE).
What other technology do you mean?
What trends do you see for IDEs?

Post by NoMercy
I would say just checkout features of ANY JetBrains product but
you don't even intend to so you are in therefor denial. (Not personally you
but many people who are objecting these)

I haven't used it yet - granted. But I have watched all the CLion releases so
far.
They are looking promising. But I haven't seen any major feature that
QtCreator would lack (C++ only).

Some of the lacking features are smart autocomplete maybe, Ctrl+K like search but improved in a better UI, but most lacking part comes in UI/UX


Regards,
Emre Beşirik
***@gmail.com

[Thiago Macieira]

Post by NoMercy
1. Have you even try to read people's comments on that link I've shared?
(Yes they are practically begging JetBrains)
I did read the bug report, yep. So what if they’re begging JetBrains? Rather
than try to shame developers into converting one product into another, why
not contribute specific features that you think are missing? Tell your
friends commenting on that bug report that they can write a plugin for Qt
Creator, and that it’s all open source.

I just want to add that there's also nothing wrong in making JetBrains a more
capable IDE for developing Qt-based projects. Yes, go beg them, go send
patches to them too.

The more the merrier.

It's also a good way to get Qt Creator developers to pay attention to a given
other IDE.

But you cannot tell people what *not* to work on.

[NoMercy]

I see the answers usually offering some workarounds, yes you can do that
BUT in a few more steps or in a less pleasent way. Thats where IU/UX design
comes in. People don't want extra steps, people don't want to use mouse etc.
I observe that most of you guys objecting are don't even see what others
are doing or don't even care beyond whats good for your use cases and you
get angry when I or other people say things like eons behind while you
don't even look what others doing or what are current trends or dont care
for UI/UX of your IDE, You don't even now other good IDEs.

Post by Emre Besirik
Regards,
Emre Besirik

[Curtis Mitch]

From: Interest [mailto:interest-bounces+mitch.curtis=***@qt-project.org] On Behalf Of NoMercy
Sent: Tuesday, 5 April 2016 3:04 PM
To: ***@qt-project.org
Subject: Re: [Interest] CLion to replace QtCreator?

I see the answers usually offering some workarounds, yes you can do that BUT in a few more steps or in a less pleasent way. Thats where IU/UX design comes in. People don't want extra steps, people don't want to use mouse etc.

So, file bug reports.

I observe that most of you guys objecting are don't even see what others are doing or don't even care beyond whats good for your use cases and you get angry when I or other people say things like eons behind while you don't even look what others doing or what are current trends or dont care for UI/UX of your IDE, You don't even now other good IDEs.

New features are constantly being added to Creator, and they’re often from suggestions from users who see something in another IDE that is missing in Creator. The way to get a feature in is to suggest it (formally, via Jira) or write it yourself. The way to not get a feature in is to propose that Creator be rewritten and “replaced by CLion”. For the record, I’m not angry, I just find the way you’ve approached the whole situation amusing.

So because I don’t know of JetBrains’ IDE, I don’t know of any other good IDEs? Ok, if you say so! :)


Regards,
Emre Besirik

[Sylvain Pointeau]

Hello,

Why are you not able to use CLion? it is cmake based project, it should
work with Qt pretty well, shouldn't it?

Best regards,
Sylvain

Post by NoMercy
I see the answers usually offering some workarounds, yes you can do that
BUT in a few more steps or in a less pleasent way. Thats where IU/UX design
comes in. People don't want extra steps, people don't want to use mouse etc.
I observe that most of you guys objecting are don't even see what others
are doing or don't even care beyond whats good for your use cases and you
get angry when I or other people say things like eons behind while you
don't even look what others doing or what are current trends or dont care
for UI/UX of your IDE, You don't even now other good IDEs.

Post by Emre Besirik
Regards,
Emre Besirik

_______________________________________________
Interest mailing list
http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/interest

[NoMercy]

Post by Sylvain Pointeau
Hello,
Why are you not able to use CLion? it is cmake based project, it should
work with Qt pretty well, shouldn't it?
Best regards,
Sylvain

Yes I can but there are still a lot of missing things :(

[Sylvain Pointeau]

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Sylvain Pointeau <
Why are you not able to use CLion? it is cmake based project, it should

Post by Sylvain Pointeau
work with Qt pretty well, shouldn't it?

Yes I can but there are still a lot of missing things :(

What is missing exactly?

[NoMercy]

Check out the bug report link in first mail.

Regards,
Emre Besirik

Post by Sylvain Pointeau

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Sylvain Pointeau <
Why are you not able to use CLion? it is cmake based project, it should

Post by Sylvain Pointeau
work with Qt pretty well, shouldn't it?

Yes I can but there are still a lot of missing things :(

What is missing exactly?

[André Somers]

Post by NoMercy
Check out the bug report link in first mail.

So, start contributing to CLion... Why do you need Creator to be
effectively dumped for that?

André

[Emre Besirik]

Post by NoMercy
Check out the bug report link in first mail.

So, start contributing to CLion... Why do you need Creator to be effectively dumped for that?
André

I’m really thinking about it actually but I don’t want QtCreator contributions to go in vein and I think it will come to a point where no one will use it anymore in someday :(

Python has its own IDE right? who uses it actually?

Regards,
Emre Beşirik
***@gmail.com

[Nye]

I’m really thinking about it actually but I don’t want QtCreator

contributions to go in vein and I think it will come to a point where no
one will use it anymore in someday :(

Well, the thing is many people aren't so willing to switch IDEs they've
worked with for years, even if they admittedly have some small
bugs/deficiencies. You certainly haven't convinced me.

I don't care much for the C++11 and "everything is auto/lambda" development
technique, so I don't need the CLang code model and consequently my creator
is fast, stable and has no problem with completion. "Auto" confuses me as
much as any code model I suppose.

Refactoring is a fancy word for rewriting code, no? So basically you want
your IDE to write the methods' skeletons? I'm pretty sure that creator have
this although I don't use it. It seems quite faster for me to write it down
directly, utilizing hevaily(!) code completion; just works out of the box
for me and it's stable as hell.

So, finally why would I want to switch to a Java based IDE (I agree with
Nuno Santos on the point of Java)? It'd give me what exactly besides the
few months I have to invest in learning its tweaks, shortcuts (or remap
them) and behavior/UI? Sorry, man, your case is simply crumbling ...

Kind regards.

Post by André Somers

Post by NoMercy
Check out the bug report link in first mail.

So, start contributing to CLion... Why do you need Creator to be

effectively dumped for that?

Post by André Somers
André

I’m really thinking about it actually but I don’t want QtCreator
contributions to go in vein and I think it will come to a point where no
one will use it anymore in someday :(
Python has its own IDE right? who uses it actually?
Regards,
Emre Beşirik
_______________________________________________
Interest mailing list
http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/interest

[Sylvain Pointeau]

Post by NoMercy
Check out the bug report link in first mail.

I checked and the 2 items the most frequently asked are:

1. open .pro files
2. QML editor

for 1. I think you can use cmake, it is a little effort, but you will get
used to it
for 2. maybe jetbrains will implement it one day? you can open a feature
request on their side.

Best regards,
Sylvain

[André Somers]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[Thiago Macieira]

Post by NoMercy

Post by Sylvain Pointeau
Hello,
Why are you not able to use CLion? it is cmake based project, it should
work with Qt pretty well, shouldn't it?
Best regards,
Sylvain

Yes I can but there are still a lot of missing things :(

In other words, CLion is eons behind Qt Creator in Qt support.

[Emre Besirik]

Post by Thiago Macieira
In other words, CLion is eons behind Qt Creator in Qt support.

no definetly not saying that, at least not yet ofcourse, I’m saying is as an IDE CLion is a better IDE. I’m not using CLion for my Qt dev, I still am using QtC, its just I’m craving for UI/UX and some other things from the likes of CLion in QtC. I’m craving for the joy I get when I code Java in Intellij while coding in QtC.

Regards,
Emre Beşirik
***@gmail.com

[Prav]

Emre Besirik, could you please change the style you discuss things here?

Post by Emre Besirik
That I can agree with! Thank you for your more cunstructive
comments on the issue

OK ... so why you not start make your messages constructive. Like with the list of filled feature-requests

Post by Emre Besirik
I’m craving for the joy I get when I code Java in Intellij while coding in QtC.

I believe nobody in Qt Company or Qt community is against joy of using QtC.
To make joy closer give us numbers of your feature-requests or bug-reports at https://bugreports.qt.io/

Post by Emre Besirik
Why do some of you guys keep accusing people for trolling? Why do
you deny improvement?

Who is against improvements? Nobody.
You want others to improve QtC? Fill bug-reports and feature-request.
Everything else is unconstructive.

Post by Emre Besirik
Besides what you have is no more than your
opinion too.. Am I wrong? You have your opinion based on your
observations, I have mine.

Make you opinions more exact with use of bugreports.qt.io

Post by Emre Besirik
You don’t add any value
to this thread, only baseless acusations.

OK ... show yours help to QtC ... for example results of using bugreports.qt.io

Post by Emre Besirik
Please only talk if you have something about the subject and keep
your accusations to your self. You are contaminating this thread.

Everybody who just have only opinion without anything from bugreports.qt.io I would say have to be
considered as "thread contaminator" or "troll" of this thread ... it bacame so large !

Mine bug is:
Renaming refactoring is broken in QtC if code have strings with non-Eglish letters (works find in CLion)
https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTCREATORBUG-14464



May be everybody in this thread better do use bugreports.qt.io first before sending here its
negative opinion?

[Emre Besirik]

Post by Prav
Emre Besirik, could you please change the style you discuss things here?

Can you please be a little more specific? I don’t remember insulting anyone or anything like that?

Post by Prav

Post by Emre Besirik
That I can agree with! Thank you for your more cunstructive
comments on the issue

OK ... so why you not start make your messages constructive. Like with the list of filled feature-requests

Thats not so easy for my part because I think whats lacking is a complete makeover… I only maybe file a bug report saying that “A expert team of UI/UX specialists should go through all of QtC” how is that for a bug report? thats why I’m here… Everybody here basicly asking for directions on how to imrpove things but the thing is non of us are UI/UX experts here and everybody will say something different here about how they like things but as probably everyone also will agree here that not a sigle UI/UX expert tocuhed QtC ever before, its all became this by simply how QtC devs wanted/liked for them selves up to this point… And thats actually the one thats need to chage first. We need at least one UI/UX expert to work on QtC to shape things as user friendly as possible...

Post by Prav

Post by Emre Besirik
I’m craving for the joy I get when I code Java in Intellij while coding in QtC.

I believe nobody in Qt Company or Qt community is against joy of using QtC.
To make joy closer give us numbers of your feature-requests or bug-reports at https://bugreports.qt.io/

see prev. comment

Post by Prav

Post by Emre Besirik
Why do some of you guys keep accusing people for trolling? Why do
you deny improvement?

Who is against improvements? Nobody.
You want others to improve QtC? Fill bug-reports and feature-request.
Everything else is unconstructive.

This is wrong as explained before bug-reports won’t cut it. We need more fundamental changes...

Post by Prav

Post by Emre Besirik
You don’t add any value
to this thread, only baseless acusations.

OK ... show yours help to QtC ... for example results of using bugreports.qt.io

This is me trying to help by trying to convince people to have a UI/UX expert on QtC.

Post by Prav
May be everybody in this thread better do use bugreports.qt.io first before sending here its
negative opinion?

You are fixated on bug reports, bug reports won’t help current stuation here. Thats for bugs and some very particular feature requests. in my opinion what needs to be chaged is more fundamental, a complete makeover to match current IDE standarts.

Regards,
Emre Beşirik
***@gmail.com

[Jean-Michaël Celerier]

Post by Emre Besirik
a complete makeover to match current IDE standarts

Example of code coloration for some code of mine in QtCreator :

​

And in CLion :

​
Of course, nothing auto-completes in CLion...

[Emre Besirik]

Post by Emre Besirik
a complete makeover to match current IDE standarts
<qtc.png>
​
<clion.png>
​
Of course, nothing auto-completes in CLion...

CLion doesn’t officially support Qt yet? besides I’m not just talking about code coloring?

Regards,
Emre Beşirik
***@gmail.com

[Jean-Michaël Celerier]

It's standard C++ code.
(That I had to wait 5 minutes for to show up vs 2 seconds in QtC :) )

On 05 Apr 2016, at 22:03, Jean-Michaël Celerier <

Post by Emre Besirik
a complete makeover to match current IDE standarts

<qtc.png>
​
<clion.png>
​
Of course, nothing auto-completes in CLion...
CLion doesn’t officially support Qt yet? besides I’m not just talking
about code coloring?
Regards,
Emre Beşirik

[Emre Besirik]

Post by Jean-Michaël Celerier
It's standard C++ code.
(That I had to wait 5 minutes for to show up vs 2 seconds in QtC :) )

I know it start slow but after it completes indexing and caching extra features pays off startup time (I think) only wish it would support Qt officially

Regards,
Emre Beşirik
***@gmail.com

[André Somers]

Post by Emre Besirik

On 05 Apr 2016, at 22:03, Jean-Michaël Celerier
a complete makeover to match current IDE standarts
<qtc.png>
​
<clion.png>
​
Of course, nothing auto-completes in CLion...

CLion doesn’t officially support Qt yet? besides I’m not just talking
about code coloring?

Isn't code coloring part of that UX you seem to be all about then? I
find proper coloring of my code to be very helpful while coding, it
certainly adds to my User eXperience.

Indeed a report saying "QtC needs a team of UX experts to go over it and
do a complete revamp" is not going to do much. The video you pointed out
helps a bit (did not watch it yet, put it on my list though). Why would
you claim that QtC is basically beyond fixing? And please be specific in
what you are looking for. Statements that it is "not modern" or the
likes don't help developers and designers to identify the problem areas
which perhaps are very real. Perhaps you could even record a few screen
sessions demonstrating aspects of the UI of CLion that you find
particulary better than what's available in QtCreator, and share those?

André

[Emre Besirik]

Post by Emre Besirik

Post by Emre Besirik
a complete makeover to match current IDE standarts
<qtc.png>
​
<clion.png>
​
Of course, nothing auto-completes in CLion...

CLion doesn’t officially support Qt yet? besides I’m not just talking about code coloring?

Isn't code coloring part of that UX you seem to be all about then? I find proper coloring of my code to be very helpful while coding, it certainly adds to my User eXperience.
Indeed a report saying "QtC needs a team of UX experts to go over it and do a complete revamp" is not going to do much. The video you pointed out helps a bit (did not watch it yet, put it on my list though). Why would you claim that QtC is basically beyond fixing? And please be specific in what you are looking for. Statements that it is "not modern" or the likes don't help developers and designers to identify the problem areas which perhaps are very real. Perhaps you could even record a few screen sessions demonstrating aspects of the UI of CLion that you find particulary better than what's available in QtCreator, and share those?

Ok I’ll try to do better but indeed the video I’ve sent before does really explain things a lot better than I ever could.

Regards,
Emre Beşirik
***@gmail.com

[Emre Besirik]

Post by Prav

Post by Emre Besirik
Thats not so easy for my part because I think whats lacking is a
complete makeover


...

Post by Emre Besirik
We need at least one UI/UX expert to work on QtC to
shape things as user friendly as possible...

...

Post by Emre Besirik

Post by Prav
Emre Besirik, could you please change the style you discuss things here?

Can you please be a little more specific?

Use bugreports.qt.io first, and then write here.
Nobody would rewrite the whole UI from gound up just because your opinion is that you feel bad about it.
But you keep repeating your message again and again ... may be this is because you think that QtC developers does not hear you.
But probably they hear ... but not agree. So if you want them to agree with you give real resons.
Which means fill feature-requests. If there would be so many real examples where CLion is better ... this is
the data to think about.
Nothing else would work for your intention (exept if your intention is trolling us here).

What I’m trying to say is; non of us here are a UI/UX expert, right? so whatever we add as feature requests to the bug report system will only maybe add some new functionality but will not improve User Experience, am I correct? QtC simply needs help from an expert on the subject...

Regards,
Emre Beşirik
***@gmail.com

[Jean-Michaël Celerier]

Post by Emre Besirik
so whatever we add as feature requests to the bug report system will only
maybe add some new functionality but will not improve *User Experience*,
am I correct?

If you were able to define in practical words what user experience is in
the context of an IDE then it would surely go to the bug report system.
Do you think that JetBrains have magical UX wizards that look at the
software and make it have a better ui/ux with their maigc UX wand ?
No, they write down list of features and things to fix and sends them to
the developers who implement them.

The QtCreator bug report will mostly be read (I guess) by this second
category, so somebody has to do the work of the first one.

<http://www.jcelerier.name>

[Emre Besirik]

Post by Emre Besirik
so whatever we add as feature requests to the bug report system will only maybe add some new functionality but will not improve User Experience, am I correct?
If you were able to define in practical words what user experience is in the context of an IDE then it would surely go to the bug report system.
Do you think that JetBrains have magical UX wizards that look at the software and make it have a better ui/ux with their maigc UX wand ?
No, they write down list of features and things to fix and sends them to the developers who implement them.
The QtCreator bug report will mostly be read (I guess) by this second category, so somebody has to do the work of the first one.
<http://www.jcelerier.name/>

I know developers need direction to go on but it is really hard to explain these things with words. I’ve showed examples of good work on the subject, ways and some principles but if I try to put everything in words issue by issue it’ll really be hard. There should be a flow of user experience. it is in little things but a lot of little things.

its when you Ctrl / Cmd Click on some function and its already open on the other splitview don’t open it in the clicked view, just go to to corresponding line on the other screen for example
its the open documents, tabless views (I know some people don’t like it but many people got used to the tabs) I for example like to work with implementations in one side and headers other but it is really hard to first select the view you want the code to open in, I don’t know how many times I opened in the wrong/unintended view, it is not user friendly
its smart completions, IDE should offer me the most logical things first by maybe looking return types, context etc. JB products are very successfull on this subject.
its that searching is not available everywhere,
its when I search (rather filter in QtC) in preferences it should go the extra mile and highlight where it found my keywords, it also should search in places like keyboard shortcuts (inside of preferences, deep search), go to where its found when I select the preference subject
its trying to do importing necessary stuff automatically when it can
its offering quick fixes as much as possible
its not making me have to use my mouse as much as possible
its making me use as less (no more than one actually) keystrokes when I’m trying to use a keyboard shortcut (double esc’s then something else, Ctrl+e then Ctrl+F4 etc
)

see my point? list can go on forever
 so logically I can only provide basic principles and some good examples or better yet please lets have help from a UI/UX expert. They maybe don’t have a magic wand but they have experience on explaining these things in words, analyzing power
 They can anaylize, understand and explain thigns we can only feel...

Regards,
Emre Beşirik
***@gmail.com

[Martijn Buijs]

Post by Emre Besirik
its when you Ctrl / Cmd Click on some function and its already open on the
other splitview don’t open it in the clicked view, just go to to
corresponding line on the other screen for example
its the open documents, tabless views (I know some people don’t like it but
many people got used to the tabs) I for example like to work with
implementations in one side and headers other but it is really hard to first
select the view you want the code to open in, I don’t know how many times I
opened in the wrong/unintended view, it is not user friendly
its smart completions, IDE should offer me the most logical things first by
maybe looking return types, context etc. JB products are very successfull on
this subject.
its that searching is not available everywhere,
its when I search (rather filter in QtC) in preferences it should go the
extra mile and highlight where it found my keywords, it also should search
in places like keyboard shortcuts (inside of preferences, deep search), go
to where its found when I select the preference subject
its trying to do importing necessary stuff automatically when it can
its offering quick fixes as much as possible
its not making me have to use my mouse as much as possible
its making me use as less (no more than one actually) keystrokes when I’m
trying to use a keyboard shortcut (double esc’s then something else, Ctrl+e
then Ctrl+F4 etc…)

If you believe that QtCreator should become a better tool for you than
what it is now, I would suggest starting to write down the issues as
you started doing in the response to Jean-Michaël Celerier and make
sure to take a constructive approach. It's fine to point to another
IDE as an example to describe some functionality that you would like
to have, but leave the pointless judgments that might insult people.

For example in the list above you mention "I for example like to work
with implementations in one side and headers other but it is really
hard to first select the view you want the code to open in, I don’t
know how many times I opened in the wrong/unintended view, it is not
user friendly", I would suggest you to leave out just the part "it is
not user friendly" and instead focus on how everyone can benefit of
your improvement.

One by one these things should be improved, that's the way to benefit
from the existing functionality in QtCreator and the things that can
be learned from new and exciting other IDE's. It's a community
project, not just a company that just decides to do a complete rewrite
of all code. Even company's frequently fail to do such complete
rewrites: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html

Post by Emre Besirik
see my point? list can go on forever… so logically I can only provide basic
principles and some good examples or better yet please lets have help from a
UI/UX expert. They maybe don’t have a magic wand but they have experience on
explaining these things in words, analyzing power… They can anaylize,
understand and explain thigns we can only feel...

Rebuilding QtCreator will not magically solve these issues. Even when
1-on-1 copying all functionality of CLion, in the end it will still be
worse, because JetBrains is not waiting for QtCreator to catch up. If
CLion really works great for you, I suggest trying to get support for
Qt in CLion instead of trying to change QtCreator.

Martijn

[Emre Besirik]

Post by Martijn Buijs
If you believe that QtCreator should become a better tool for you than
what it is now, I would suggest starting to write down the issues as
you started doing in the response to Jean-Michaël Celerier and make
sure to take a constructive approach. It's fine to point to another
IDE as an example to describe some functionality that you would like
to have, but leave the pointless judgments that might insult people.
For example in the list above you mention "I for example like to work
with implementations in one side and headers other but it is really
hard to first select the view you want the code to open in, I don’t
know how many times I opened in the wrong/unintended view, it is not
user friendly", I would suggest you to leave out just the part "it is
not user friendly" and instead focus on how everyone can benefit of
your improvement.
One by one these things should be improved, that's the way to benefit
from the existing functionality in QtCreator and the things that can
be learned from new and exciting other IDE's. It's a community
project, not just a company that just decides to do a complete rewrite
of all code. Even company's frequently fail to do such complete
rewrites: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html

Post by Emre Besirik
see my point? list can go on forever… so logically I can only provide basic
principles and some good examples or better yet please lets have help from a
UI/UX expert. They maybe don’t have a magic wand but they have experience on
explaining these things in words, analyzing power… They can anaylize,
understand and explain thigns we can only feel...

Rebuilding QtCreator will not magically solve these issues. Even when
1-on-1 copying all functionality of CLion, in the end it will still be
worse, because JetBrains is not waiting for QtCreator to catch up. If
CLion really works great for you, I suggest trying to get support for
Qt in CLion instead of trying to change QtCreator.
Martijn

I acknowlegde that writing a complete IDE is no easy task and I do appreciate the team for doing it in the first place. and what I’m talking about in the last couple of days are not intended to deminish their hard work, its a fully functional IDE afterall. What I’m trying to say is either the team is not big enough to handle things beyond core functionality or simply there is no UI/UX expert to guide devs on user experience. it is not a fault of anyone but just a fact that there is a need for a UI/UX expert. otherwise we will have a fully functional, fully capable IDE that very small amount of people will want to use.
And ok lets go to bugreports and fill all the things we can think of but I think that in the end will not help much because user experience is a flow and should be handled as a complete subject, not little by little issues… thats why I’m insisting on at least one UI/UX expert should be on the team to guide them, otherwise if you leave it to the bugreports you’ll be leaving the judgement of accepting the feature requests to the devs who may or may not like it. after all some of those little things may require A LOT of work or very fundamental changes which may freak out devs but if a UI/UX expert in the team can insist on requirement of that particular change and convince them to go for it…

Regards,
Emre Beşirik
***@gmail.com

[André Somers]

Post by Emre Besirik
Thats not so easy for my part because I think whats lacking is a
complete makeover…

...

Post by Emre Besirik
We need at least one UI/UX expert to work on QtC to
shape things as user friendly as possible...

...

Post by Emre Besirik

Post by Prav
Emre Besirik, could you please change the style you discuss things here?

Can you please be a little more specific?

Use bugreports.qt.io <http://bugreports.qt.io> first, and then write
here.
Nobody would rewrite the whole UI from gound up just because your
opinion is that you feel bad about it.
But you keep repeating your message again and again ... may be this
is because you think that QtC developers does not hear you.
But probably they hear ... but not agree. So if you want them to
agree with you give real resons.
Which means fill feature-requests. If there would be so many real
examples where CLion is better ... this is
the data to think about.
Nothing else would work for your intention (exept if your intention is trolling us here).

What I’m trying to say is; non of us here are a UI/UX expert, right?

I would not make such assumptions out of hand... Do you know who is
subscribed here, and who is working on QtC?

so whatever we add as feature requests to the bug report system will
only maybe add some new functionality but will not improve *User
Experience*, am I correct?

Wrong. The UX of an application is defined by its design and its
features, and how the these interact. So, indicating where there are
issues with these so they can be addressed will help the UX. UX is not
some secret sause to be poured over an application when the coding is
done (or something you can only work on before you start coding).

QtC simply needs help from an expert on the subject...

That is the kind of useless statement people here become annoyed about.
Point out the problems before you start assuming that outside help is
needed to address these as of yet unknown problems.

André

[Emre Besirik]

Post by Emre Besirik
What I’m trying to say is; non of us here are a UI/UX expert, right?

I would not make such assumptions out of hand... Do you know who is subscribed here, and who is working on QtC?

Well yes I can not know for sure but I’m betting on it. if I’m wrong then I’ll apologise about this...

Post by Emre Besirik
so whatever we add as feature requests to the bug report system will only maybe add some new functionality but will not improve User Experience, am I correct?

Wrong. The UX of an application is defined by its design and its features, and how the these interact. So, indicating where there are issues with these so they can be addressed will help the UX. UX is not some secret sause to be poured over an application when the coding is done (or something you can only work on before you start coding).

Please see my reply to Jean-Michaël Celerier on this subject.

Post by Emre Besirik
QtC simply needs help from an expert on the subject...

That is the kind of useless statement people here become annoyed about. Point out the problems before you start assuming that outside help is needed to address these as of yet unknown problems.

Again my reply to Jean-Michaël Celerier


Regards,
Emre Beşirik
***@gmail.com

[Emre Besirik]

Post by NoMercy
Hey look I didn't start to offend anybody about their work,
but just get some realistic here;

Thank you for admitting that this hasn't been realistic so far.
Oh, and you *did* insult some people.
Andre'

Could you please be more specific about who and by saying what did I insult people? I simply pointed out that QtC developers are not UI/UX experts and I’m sure that team has no UI/UX expert in it what so ever (correct me if I’m wrong?) and this is not insulting.

Regards,
Emre Beşirik
***@gmail.com

[Emre Besirik]

Post by Emre Besirik
it only searches for filenames

Utter nonsense.

Well ok even it does not do it as good as JB products I’ll accept this but watch the video link I’ve sent if you had time, you’ll then see what I actually mean

Post by Emre Besirik
You only offer mostly workarounds which are not the same. debugging values for
instance; yes we can also see the values in the debug windows if we’d like to
but its not the same, when it is shown inline you just need to look no other
action required.

There's a global option somewhere to get debugger tooltips in the editor.
I.e. also wrong.

tooltips require you to reach your mouse and go over things wait etc..

Post by Emre Besirik
QtCreator compared to modern IDEs. A good IDE (I think) should avoid to make
its users have to take their hand off the keyboard to reach the mouse or
touchpad as much as possible, to do this you should have a perfect keybord
shortcut system, which also should avoid to make its users to have multiple
keystrokes (double esc and then something more etc.) Jetbrains products are
really engineered very well on their UI/UX part, if we can not have/afford an

I'd really like you to not use the word 'we' in this discussion. It feels
highly inappropriate in combination with your tone.

I’m saying “we” because I\m also trying to use Qt, I’m also trying to make things better instead of denying room for improvement. And about my tone, I really don’t get it when critisim is always perceived as “tone”?

Post by Emre Besirik
experienced UI/UX team of professionals then at least we should inspect what
they (jetbrains and/or others) have done and learn from them then apply to
QtCreator maybe?

I don't really get your intention here. You are obviously successful at
trolling. You also made clear you found an IDE you are happy with, and you
despise Qt Creator. Still, you reach out to this supposedly unenlightened crowd
and ask them to clone your idol?

Well to be honest CLion does not have full support for Qt yet and I’d love to use that if it had. You sound like QtC is your child I’m insulting him/her? You maybe one of the QtC Devs but you don’t necessarily lose your dignity if you are not a good designer? you don’t have to be
 you are a developer and that is a completely different profession on its own. I don’t understand why people gets so offended even it is not about you or your work?
I bet QtC simply hasn’t been touched by ANY UI/UX expert to this day and thats the problem, and thats all, there is nothing to get offended about this at all even if you are one of the developers.

Please? Why don't you just stick to what you are happy with?

The problem is; what I’m happy with does not exist yet...

If you really wanted to be helpful, as in rightfully using the word "we",
you could have filed feature requests on bugreports.qt-project.org <http://bugreports.qt-project.org/>. Sure,
some of them might have triggered an immediate 'Invalid' resolution, but
in the end some valid points will have survived, and some of these even
would have been fixed.

See my previous posts about bugreport, it is not enough, you can not make a feature req. saying; “Please have an experienced team of UI/UX experts to go through all of QtC and make a complete makeover” ?


Regards,
Emre Beşirik
***@gmail.com <mailto:***@gmail.com>

[Thiago Macieira]

Post by Emre Besirik
Search! (like spotlight search with just one shortcut key to open file or go
to a particular location in your code): search symbols
files in your project
search everywhere

Ctrl+K in Creator.

[Emre Besirik]

XML tags completion for known tags. This can be done for *.UI files, and maybe some part of *.QS. Basic XML structure is already know - so even for unknown XML variants - the IDE knows what tag to close.
Class implementations - for example, I derive from an interface and pressing control+enter on the type will add missing methods.
AlertDialog.Builder builder = new AlertDialog.Builder(this);
builder.setPositiveButton(android.R.string.ok, new ___
Pressing "control+enter" will create a new anonymous class which derives new DialogInterface.OnClickListener()
When a method argument is an enum, code completion works on the corresponding enum, and adds the needed type.
ListView mListView = findViewById(R.id.notifications_list_view);
it will suggest to typecast to ListView (to fix - again, control+enter).
While debugging the values of variables are displayed inside the text editor, in light gray (no more looking for them in a panel).
When using connect, using Niko's example, I would like to type
connect(button, [clicked], this, [playTheFunkyMusic])
and QtCreator should automagically find the signals of button, and the corresponding slots of "this". It used to work in ond style Qt4 signals, but with modern connections, I need to type the whole type. Some signals are hard to find, for example the "click()" signal from QButton comes from QAbstractButton. This means that when an object "has/provides" a signal, I need to guess the parent type which defined the signal in order connect it (I did not have to know this in Qt4).
When I am lost "control+enter" usually fixe stuff for me.
Multiple cursors (see the demo on SublimeText's home page - its epic, and Atom badly implements it),

Search! (like spotlight search with just one shortcut key to open file or go to a particular location in your code):
search symbols
files in your project
search everywhere
you can lookout jetbrains IDEs for more examples
Smart code completion. and by smart I mean for instance; if I’m going to assign something to an int type do not suggest me different return types of functions or variables. do smart things like; if I’m creating/assigning a variable something for first time suggest me things like object initializations first depending on the object type. And try to do these without delays as much as possible. cache, index, think beyond the box.
Do things so obvious your self, do not wait for me to do.
tabs — the current working type of open documents are really annoying. if you have split view open, first you need to select the view you intend to change open document. I dont know how many times I’ve changed the non-intended document in workspace
ONE key to kill all other views and leave code windows open only (like distraction free mode of intellij)
go proactive, generate getters/setter and stuff like that.
have a dark UI mode :)
have tons of more keyboard shortcuts (check out intellij)
have a better user friendly UI

I’m sorry to say this but QtCreator is actually eons behind the current IDE trends and technology :(
Just checkout the comments at the link I shared in my first post, people are practically begging jetbrains to save themselves from QtCreator (no offense intended but this is the case for many people)
And I think Qt Company should just get rid of the denial of the world start to see beyond horizon and do something, revolutionize QtCreator or just do something like Google did for android studio and embrace/deal with jetbrains ide and fork a CLion custimized for Qt development. I dont see anyother way :(

Regards,
Emre Beşirik
***@gmail.com

[Konstantin Tokarev]

* XML tags completion for known tags. This can be done for *.UI files, and maybe some part of *.QS.  Basic XML structure is already know - so even for unknown XML variants - the IDE knows what tag to close.
* Class implementations - for example, I derive from an interface and pressing control+enter on the type will add missing methods.
AlertDialog.Builder builder = new AlertDialog.Builder(this);
builder.setPositiveButton(android.R.string.ok, new ___
Pressing "control+enter" will create a new anonymous class which derives new DialogInterface.OnClickListener()
*
When a method argument is an enum, code completion works on the corresponding enum, and adds the needed type.
*
ListView mListView = findViewById(R.id.notifications_list_view);
it will suggest to typecast to ListView (to fix - again, control+enter).
*
While debugging the values of variables are displayed inside the text editor, in light gray (no more looking for them in a panel).
*
When using connect, using Niko's example, I would like to type
connect(button, [clicked], this, [playTheFunkyMusic])
and QtCreator should automagically find the signals of button, and the corresponding slots of "this". It used to work in ond style Qt4 signals, but with modern connections, I need to type the whole type. Some signals are hard to find, for example the "click()" signal from QButton comes from QAbstractButton. This means that when an object "has/provides" a signal, I need to guess the parent type which defined the signal in order connect it (I did not have to know this in Qt4).
*
When I am lost "control+enter" usually fixe stuff for me.
*
Multiple cursors (see the demo on SublimeText's home page - its epic, and Atom badly implements it),

* search symbols
* files in your project
* search everywhere
* you can lookout jetbrains IDEs for more examples
* Smart code completion. and by smart I mean for instance; if I’m going to assign something to an int type do not suggest me different return types of functions or variables. do smart things like; if I’m creating/assigning a variable something for first time suggest me things like object initializations first depending on the object type. And try to do these without delays as much as possible. cache, index, think beyond the box.
* Do things so obvious your self, do not wait for me to do.
* tabs — the current working type of open documents are really annoying. if you have split view open, first you need to select the view you intend to change open document. I dont know how many times I’ve changed the non-intended document in workspace
* ONE key to kill all other views and leave code windows open only (like distraction free mode of intellij)
* go proactive, generate getters/setter and stuff like that.
* have a dark UI mode :)
* have tons of more keyboard shortcuts (check out intellij)
* have a better user friendly UI
I’m sorry to say this but QtCreator is actually eons behind the current IDE trends and technology :(
Just checkout the comments at the link I shared in my first post, people are practically begging jetbrains to save themselves from QtCreator (no offense intended but this is the case for many people)
And I think Qt Company should just get rid of the denial of the world start to see beyond horizon and do something, revolutionize QtCreator or just do something like Google did for android studio and embrace/deal with jetbrains ide and fork a CLion custimized for Qt development. I dont see anyother way :(

There is a fundamental difference here with Android Studio case: IntelliJ Idea is an open-source product, while CLion isn't (and is not even free-as-in-beer, which is a dealbreaker for many people).

[Emre Besirik]

Post by Konstantin Tokarev

* XML tags completion for known tags. This can be done for *.UI files, and maybe some part of *.QS. Basic XML structure is already know - so even for unknown XML variants - the IDE knows what tag to close.
* Class implementations - for example, I derive from an interface and pressing control+enter on the type will add missing methods.
AlertDialog.Builder builder = new AlertDialog.Builder(this);
builder.setPositiveButton(android.R.string.ok, new ___
Pressing "control+enter" will create a new anonymous class which derives new DialogInterface.OnClickListener()
*
When a method argument is an enum, code completion works on the corresponding enum, and adds the needed type.
*
ListView mListView = findViewById(R.id.notifications_list_view);
it will suggest to typecast to ListView (to fix - again, control+enter).
*
While debugging the values of variables are displayed inside the text editor, in light gray (no more looking for them in a panel).
*
When using connect, using Niko's example, I would like to type
connect(button, [clicked], this, [playTheFunkyMusic])
and QtCreator should automagically find the signals of button, and the corresponding slots of "this". It used to work in ond style Qt4 signals, but with modern connections, I need to type the whole type. Some signals are hard to find, for example the "click()" signal from QButton comes from QAbstractButton. This means that when an object "has/provides" a signal, I need to guess the parent type which defined the signal in order connect it (I did not have to know this in Qt4).
*
When I am lost "control+enter" usually fixe stuff for me.
*
Multiple cursors (see the demo on SublimeText's home page - its epic, and Atom badly implements it),

* search symbols
* files in your project
* search everywhere
* you can lookout jetbrains IDEs for more examples
* Smart code completion. and by smart I mean for instance; if I’m going to assign something to an int type do not suggest me different return types of functions or variables. do smart things like; if I’m creating/assigning a variable something for first time suggest me things like object initializations first depending on the object type. And try to do these without delays as much as possible. cache, index, think beyond the box.
* Do things so obvious your self, do not wait for me to do.
* tabs — the current working type of open documents are really annoying. if you have split view open, first you need to select the view you intend to change open document. I dont know how many times I’ve changed the non-intended document in workspace
* ONE key to kill all other views and leave code windows open only (like distraction free mode of intellij)
* go proactive, generate getters/setter and stuff like that.
* have a dark UI mode :)
* have tons of more keyboard shortcuts (check out intellij)
* have a better user friendly UI
I’m sorry to say this but QtCreator is actually eons behind the current IDE trends and technology :(
Just checkout the comments at the link I shared in my first post, people are practically begging jetbrains to save themselves from QtCreator (no offense intended but this is the case for many people)
And I think Qt Company should just get rid of the denial of the world start to see beyond horizon and do something, revolutionize QtCreator or just do something like Google did for android studio and embrace/deal with jetbrains ide and fork a CLion custimized for Qt development. I dont see anyother way :(

There is a fundamental difference here with Android Studio case: IntelliJ Idea is an open-source product, while CLion isn't (and is not even free-as-in-beer, which is a dealbreaker for many people).
--
Regards,
Konstantin

Well there must be something can be done, Qt Can use Intellij like google did, I know its a little bit more work compared to CLion fork but it is possible. Or at least a plugin for intellij platform maybe? I mean as long as you want to be part of the solution...


Regards/Saygilar,
Emre Beşirik
***@gmail.com

[Konstantin Tokarev]

Post by Emre Besirik

 * XML tags completion for known tags. This can be done for *.UI files, and maybe some part of *.QS. Basic XML structure is already know - so even for unknown XML variants - the IDE knows what tag to close.
 * Class implementations - for example, I derive from an interface and pressing control+enter on the type will add missing methods.
 AlertDialog.Builder builder = new AlertDialog.Builder(this);
 builder.setPositiveButton(android.R.string.ok, new ___
 Pressing "control+enter" will create a new anonymous class which derives new DialogInterface.OnClickListener()
 *
 When a method argument is an enum, code completion works on the corresponding enum, and adds the needed type.
 *
 ListView mListView = findViewById(R.id.notifications_list_view);
 it will suggest to typecast to ListView (to fix - again, control+enter).
 *
 While debugging the values of variables are displayed inside the text editor, in light gray (no more looking for them in a panel).
 *
 When using connect, using Niko's example, I would like to type
 connect(button, [clicked], this, [playTheFunkyMusic])
 and QtCreator should automagically find the signals of button, and the corresponding slots of "this". It used to work in ond style Qt4 signals, but with modern connections, I need to type the whole type. Some signals are hard to find, for example the "click()" signal from QButton comes from QAbstractButton. This means that when an object "has/provides" a signal, I need to guess the parent type which defined the signal in order connect it (I did not have to know this in Qt4).
 *
 When I am lost "control+enter" usually fixe stuff for me.
 *
 Multiple cursors (see the demo on SublimeText's home page - its epic, and Atom badly implements it),

 * search symbols
 * files in your project
 * search everywhere
 * you can lookout jetbrains IDEs for more examples
 * Smart code completion. and by smart I mean for instance; if I’m going to assign something to an int type do not suggest me different return types of functions or variables. do smart things like; if I’m creating/assigning a variable something for first time suggest me things like object initializations first depending on the object type. And try to do these without delays as much as possible. cache, index, think beyond the box.
 * Do things so obvious your self, do not wait for me to do.
 * tabs — the current working type of open documents are really annoying. if you have split view open, first you need to select the view you intend to change open document. I dont know how many times I’ve changed the non-intended document in workspace
 * ONE key to kill all other views and leave code windows open only (like distraction free mode of intellij)
 * go proactive, generate getters/setter and stuff like that.
 * have a dark UI mode :)
 * have tons of more keyboard shortcuts (check out intellij)
 * have a better user friendly UI
 I’m sorry to say this but QtCreator is actually eons behind the current IDE trends and technology :(
 Just checkout the comments at the link I shared in my first post, people are practically begging jetbrains to save themselves from QtCreator (no offense intended but this is the case for many people)
 And I think Qt Company should just get rid of the denial of the world start to see beyond horizon and do something, revolutionize QtCreator or just do something like Google did for android studio and embrace/deal with jetbrains ide and fork a CLion custimized for Qt development. I dont see anyother way :(

 There is a fundamental difference here with Android Studio case: IntelliJ Idea is an open-source product, while CLion isn't (and is not even free-as-in-beer, which is a dealbreaker for many people).
 --
 Regards,
 Konstantin

Well there must be something can be done, Qt Can use Intellij like google did, I know its a little bit more work compared to CLion fork but it is possible.

A liitle bit?

That would mean porting of all clang code model code (and maybe other parts) into different IDE architecture and integrating all C++ code with Java. And it still would be the same clang code model that you don't like.

Post by Emre Besirik
Or at least a plugin for intellij platform maybe? I mean as long as you want to be part of the solution...

Well, if CLion gets bigger market share than Visual Studio it might happen that VS plugin is dropped in favour of this IDE.

[Emre Besirik]

Post by Konstantin Tokarev

Post by Emre Besirik
Well there must be something can be done, Qt Can use Intellij like google did, I know its a little bit more work compared to CLion fork but it is possible.

A liitle bit?
That would mean porting of all clang code model code (and maybe other parts) into different IDE architecture and integrating all C++ code with Java. And it still would be the same clang code model that you don't like.

Ok but jetbrains did it, why cant we?

Post by Konstantin Tokarev

Post by Emre Besirik
Or at least a plugin for intellij platform maybe? I mean as long as you want to be part of the solution...

Well, if CLion gets bigger market share than Visual Studio it might happen that VS plugin is dropped in favour of this IDE.

We all know thats not going to happen, why not to have plugins for 2 different IDEs?

Regards,
Emre Beşirik
***@gmail.com

[Reinhardt Behm]

Post by Emre Besirik

Post by Konstantin Tokarev

Post by Emre Besirik
Well there must be something can be done, Qt Can use Intellij like google
did, I know its a little bit more work compared to CLion fork but it is
possible.>

A liitle bit?
That would mean porting of all clang code model code (and maybe other
parts) into different IDE architecture and integrating all C++ code with
Java. And it still would be the same clang code model that you don't
like.

Ok but jetbrains did it, why cant we?

Post by Konstantin Tokarev

Post by Emre Besirik
Or at least a plugin for intellij platform maybe? I mean as long as you
want to be part of the solution...>

Well, if CLion gets bigger market share than Visual Studio it might happen
that VS plugin is dropped in favour of this IDE.

We all know thats not going to happen, why not to have plugins for 2 different IDEs?

What is stops you from doing it?
It is all open source and many people are quite happy with QtCreator. If you
want it changed do it, or find somebody who will do it and finance it.

[NoMercy]

I think after countless agruments in this thread I will try to do that at
best I can or find some interested people and help them maybe :(
But the thing is that I'm sorry that after some point when 90% of Qt
users/developers start to use/see/accept other IDEs as default for Qt
development instead of QtCreator when there is a real good alternative,
people will feel sorry coming this thread scratching their head and
thinking what we have done wrong... after that point winning people back to
QtCreator will be hard as hell and countless hours spent developing
QtCreator will be in vein because there will be left around 15 people left
happy around their closed environment.

And people keep saying that it is open source, you do it, why don't you do
it etc. well it maybe open source but I think Qt company is payed well
considering the license costs, why dont Qt Company do something about it?
isn't it Qt Company's official product after all?

Post by Emre Besirik

Post by Emre Besirik

Post by Konstantin Tokarev

Post by Emre Besirik
Well there must be something can be done, Qt Can use Intellij like

google

Post by Emre Besirik

Post by Konstantin Tokarev

Post by Emre Besirik
did, I know its a little bit more work compared to CLion fork but it

is

Post by Emre Besirik

Post by Konstantin Tokarev

Post by Emre Besirik
possible.>

A liitle bit?
That would mean porting of all clang code model code (and maybe other
parts) into different IDE architecture and integrating all C++ code

with

Post by Emre Besirik

Post by Konstantin Tokarev
Java. And it still would be the same clang code model that you don't
like.

Ok but jetbrains did it, why cant we?

Post by Konstantin Tokarev

Post by Emre Besirik
Or at least a plugin for intellij platform maybe? I mean as long as

you

Post by Emre Besirik

Post by Konstantin Tokarev

Post by Emre Besirik
want to be part of the solution...>

Well, if CLion gets bigger market share than Visual Studio it might

happen

Post by Emre Besirik

Post by Konstantin Tokarev
that VS plugin is dropped in favour of this IDE.

We all know thats not going to happen, why not to have plugins for 2 different IDEs?

What is stops you from doing it?
It is all open source and many people are quite happy with QtCreator. If you
want it changed do it, or find somebody who will do it and finance it.
--
Reinhardt
_______________________________________________
Interest mailing list
http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/interest

[NoMercy]

The thing is stuff that needs to chage (i think) can't just be covered by
some feature requests, tons of things need to change. There should be a
team of UI/UX experts who should reshape the whole thing. :(

Post by NoMercy

Post by NoMercy
I think after countless agruments in this thread I will try to do that at
best I can or find some interested people and help them maybe :(
But the thing is that I'm sorry that after some point when 90% of Qt
users/developers start to use/see/accept other IDEs as default for Qt
development instead of QtCreator when there is a real good alternative,
people will feel sorry coming this thread scratching their head and

thinking

Post by NoMercy
what we have done wrong... after that point winning people back to

QtCreator

Post by NoMercy
will be hard as hell and countless hours spent developing QtCreator will

be

Post by NoMercy
in vein because there will be left around 15 people left happy around

their

Post by NoMercy
closed environment.
And people keep saying that it is open source, you do it, why don't you

do

Post by NoMercy
it etc. well it maybe open source but I think Qt company is payed well
considering the license costs, why dont Qt Company do something about it?
isn't it Qt Company's official product after all?

If you want to change something in QtCreator, you can use two
1. "Hey, your IDE is wretched, I don't like it. Throw away all your
code and create new IDE from scratch. Or even better, don't waste time
and add Qt support to my favorite IDE. And I don't want to offend
somebody, just saying that it's rubbish."
2. "Hey, there is a good IDE xxx. It has nice features, that are
missing in QtCreator: feature1, feature2, etc. What do you think about
adding this features? I can create tickets in JIRA if you are agree
that it would be good to have this features in QtC (or even volunteer
to implement some of them)."
I think, the second approach more constructive.

[Reinhardt Behm]

Post by NoMercy
I think after countless agruments in this thread I will try to do that at
best I can or find some interested people and help them maybe :(
But the thing is that I'm sorry that after some point when 90% of Qt
users/developers start to use/see/accept other IDEs as default for Qt
development instead of QtCreator when there is a real good alternative,
people will feel sorry coming this thread scratching their head and
thinking what we have done wrong... after that point winning people back to
QtCreator will be hard as hell and countless hours spent developing
QtCreator will be in vein because there will be left around 15 people left
happy around their closed environment.
And people keep saying that it is open source, you do it, why don't you do
it etc. well it maybe open source but I think Qt company is payed well
considering the license costs, why dont Qt Company do something about it?
isn't it Qt Company's official product after all?

First please reply to the list and not to individual users. If I answered to
the list means that I am reading it. No need for direct copies to me.
Second please don't top post even if you find this more "modern".

On which real data are just "statistics" based? Seeing many discussions in
this list as well as privately I doubt the validity of your numbers.

[Emre Besirik]

Post by Reinhardt Behm

Post by NoMercy
And people keep saying that it is open source, you do it, why don't you do
it etc. well it maybe open source but I think Qt company is payed well
considering the license costs, why dont Qt Company do something about it?
isn't it Qt Company's official product after all?

First please reply to the list and not to individual users. If I answered to
the list means that I am reading it. No need for direct copies to me.
Second please don't top post even if you find this more "modern”.

I do not always use the same mail client and even though I try to clean up things, as I am a simply human, I may forget to do somethings occasionally.
And about the top-posting; thats really an argument belong to entirely different thread on its own. don’t get me started on the anti-topposting obsession/top-post allergy of people here please
 And even though its not only me doing these “mistakes” you only seem to attack me over these, I’m wondering why...

Post by Reinhardt Behm
On which real data are just "statistics" based? Seeing many discussions in
this list as well as privately I doubt the validity of your numbers.

No real data actually but mere observations, don’t need any real data. its just my personal opinion, I do not claim to now for sure.

Regards,
Emre Beşirik
***@gmail.com

[Reinhardt Behm]

Post by Emre Besirik

Post by Reinhardt Behm

Post by NoMercy
And people keep saying that it is open source, you do it, why don't you do
it etc. well it maybe open source but I think Qt company is payed well
considering the license costs, why dont Qt Company do something about it?
isn't it Qt Company's official product after all?

First please reply to the list and not to individual users. If I answered
to the list means that I am reading it. No need for direct copies to me.
Second please don't top post even if you find this more "modern”.

I do not always use the same mail client and even though I try to clean up
things, as I am a simply human, I may forget to do somethings occasionally.
And about the top-posting; thats really an argument belong to entirely
different thread on its own. don’t get me started on the anti-topposting
obsession/top-post allergy of people here please… And even though its not
only me doing these “mistakes” you only seem to attack me over these, I’m
wondering why...

Maybe others don't.

Post by Emre Besirik

Post by Reinhardt Behm
On which real data are just "statistics" based? Seeing many discussions in
this list as well as privately I doubt the validity of your numbers.

No real data actually but mere observations, don’t need any real data. its
just my personal opinion, I do not claim to now for sure.

That tells a big story.
We do not need facts, we have an opinion.

Please go trolling somewhere else.

[Emre Besirik]

Post by Emre Besirik
I do not always use the same mail client and even though I try to clean up
things, as I am a simply human, I may forget to do somethings occasionally.
And about the top-posting; thats really an argument belong to entirely
different thread on its own. don’t get me started on the anti-topposting
obsession/top-post allergy of people here please
 And even though its not
only me doing these “mistakes” you only seem to attack me over these, I’m
wondering why...

Maybe others don’t.

You are definitely wrong here, I’ve seen many...

Post by Emre Besirik

Post by Reinhardt Behm
On which real data are just "statistics" based? Seeing many discussions in
this list as well as privately I doubt the validity of your numbers.

No real data actually but mere observations, don’t need any real data. its
just my personal opinion, I do not claim to now for sure.

That tells a big story.
We do not need facts, we have an opinion.
Please go trolling somewhere else.

Why do some of you guys keep accusing people for trolling? Why do you deny improvement? Besides what you have is no more than your opinion too.. Am I wrong? You have your opinion based on your observations, I have mine. What makes yours the correct opinion? You are just trying to attack without any purpose, just accusing me for things that I don’t or things that I’m not. You don’t add any value to this thread, only baseless acusations.

Please only talk if you have something about the subject and keep your accusations to your self. You are contaminating this thread.

Regards,
Emre Beşirik
***@gmail.com

[Thiago Macieira]

Post by NoMercy
And people keep saying that it is open source, you do it, why don't you do
it etc. well it maybe open source but I think Qt company is payed well
considering the license costs, why dont Qt Company do something about it?
isn't it Qt Company's official product after all?

I don't work for the Qt Company and I don't know their financials well, but my
guess is that they are not swimming in money and profits. It costs money to do
what they're doing now and it costs money to do other things that they aren't
doing yet. (obviously)

More specifically, I don't think there's a financial interest. Do you really
think that the Qt Company is going to make a lot more money if this plugin
existed? Who would buy a commercial licence just because the CLion plugin
exists?

No, the way I guess it works, when companies choose a commercial Qt licence,
they don't care which IDEs their developers use.

[Guenter Schwann]

* Search! (like spotlight search with just one shortcut key to open file
* search symbols
* files in your project
* search everywhere
* you can lookout jetbrains IDEs for more examples

You mean Locator?
http://doc.qt.io/qtcreator/creator-editor-locator.html

* ONE key to kill all other views
and leave code windows open only (like distraction free mode of
intellij)

Set a shortcut for "CloseAllExceptVisible"?

* go proactive, generate getters/setter and stuff like that.

Move the cursor to the member variable in the class and press Alt-Enter ...

* have tons of more keyboard shortcuts (check out intellij)

There are a tons of shortcuts, and you can fully customize them.
http://doc.qt.io/qtcreator/creator-keyboard-shortcuts.html

* have a better user friendly UI

I like the UI a lot.

I’m sorry to say this but QtCreator is actually eons behind the current
IDE trends and technology :(

QtCreator works really well for me. I prefer it over VisualStudio. CLion looks nice. But I haven't seen a lot
of features not available in QtCreator.

By the way it seems you missed quite some refactoring:
http://doc.qt.io/qtcreator/creator-editor-refactoring.html

Regards
GÃŒnter

[Sean Harmer]

On Monday 04 April 2016 15:13:01 Emre Besirik wrote:
<snip>

tabs — the current working type of open documents are really annoying. if
you have split view open, first you need to select the view you intend to
change open document. I dont know how many times I’ve changed the
non-intended document in workspace

Some people like tabs, some don't. Tabs do not scale well beyond a handful of
files though. I'd rather search through an alphabetical list (in the left pane)
or an ordered list (ctrl+tab popup menu) than hunting through 4 rows of
arbitrarily ordered tab headers.

ONE key to kill all other views and
leave code windows open only (like distraction free mode of intellij)

Shouldn't be that hard to add in. File a feature request in JIRA. For now,
escape x 2, Ctrl+0 does a 1st order approximation.

go
proactive, generate getters/setter and stuff like that.
have a dark UI mode :)

Tools->Options->Environment->Theme->Dark.

have tons of more keyboard shortcuts (check out intellij)
have a better user friendly UI

Qt Creator is an open source project. Contribute if something is bugging you.

Cheers,

Sean

ps No need to forward everybody's replies to the list. They are cc'd to you as
well as to the list.

[Konstantin Tokarev]

Post by Sean Harmer
<snip>

 tabs — the current working type of open documents are really annoying. if
 you have split view open, first you need to select the view you intend to
 change open document. I dont know how many times I’ve changed the
 non-intended document in workspace

Some people like tabs, some don't. Tabs do not scale well beyond a handful of
files though. I'd rather search through an alphabetical list (in the left pane)
or an ordered list (ctrl+tab popup menu) than hunting through 4 rows of
arbitrarily ordered tab headers.

I guess he meant tabs as an alternative visual representation of screen split.

Post by Sean Harmer

 ONE key to kill all other views and
 leave code windows open only (like distraction free mode of intellij)

Shouldn't be that hard to add in. File a feature request in JIRA. For now,
escape x 2, Ctrl+0 does a 1st order approximation.

 go
 proactive, generate getters/setter and stuff like that.
 have a dark UI mode :)

Tools->Options->Environment->Theme->Dark.

 have tons of more keyboard shortcuts (check out intellij)
 have a better user friendly UI

Qt Creator is an open source project. Contribute if something is bugging you.
Cheers,
Sean
ps No need to forward everybody's replies to the list. They are cc'd to you as
well as to the list.
--
KDAB (UK) Ltd, a KDAB Group company
Tel. [phone]; Sweden (HQ) [phone]
Mobile: [phone]
KDAB - Qt Experts
_______________________________________________
Interest mailing list
http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/interest

[Preet]

Hey I want to chime in for the Creator devs that might be reading this:
please keep doing what you do, QtCreator is *awesome*. It always seems like
once people start liking and using certain IDEs and editors it becomes like
a religion and people love talking down everything else. So much of 'tabs
vs menu', 'color themes', 'UI-friendliness', etc can be subjective. Saying
QtCreator "is actually eons behind the current IDE trends and technology"
is just insulting. There are plenty of things in QtCreator that could use
improvement, but thats true of most software. In general its a polished IDE
that makes working with C++ way nicer and I can't wait to see how QtCreator
gets even better in the future.

[Curtis Mitch]

From: Interest [mailto:interest-bounces+mitch.curtis=***@qt-project.org] On Behalf Of Preet
Sent: Monday, 4 April 2016 11:30 PM
Cc: ***@qt-project.org
Subject: Re: [Interest] CLion to replace QtCreator?

Hey I want to chime in for the Creator devs that might be reading this: please keep doing what you do, QtCreator is *awesome*. It always seems like once people start liking and using certain IDEs and editors it becomes like a religion and people love talking down everything else. So much of 'tabs vs menu', 'color themes', 'UI-friendliness', etc can be subjective. Saying QtCreator "is actually eons behind the current IDE trends and technology" is just insulting. There are plenty of things in QtCreator that could use improvement, but thats true of most software. In general its a polished IDE that makes working with C++ way nicer and I can't wait to see how QtCreator gets even better in the future.


This. I think the Creator devs must have built up a nice level of restraint after dealing with these kinds of “users” (has this person actually used Creator properly?).

[Emre Besirik]

Post by Sean Harmer
ps No need to forward everybody's replies to the list. They are cc'd to you as
well as to the list.

I didn’t forward anythink? I know how mailing lists work ;) I just accidentally double posted one of mail own mails and told someone to also post to list instead of just replying to the person.

[Nikita Krupenko]

Post by Emre Besirik
Search! (like spotlight search with just one shortcut key to open file or go
search symbols
files in your project
search everywhere
you can lookout jetbrains IDEs for more examples

There is a search box and you can use Ctrl+k shortcut for it.

Though CLion may be good at C++, I have doubts, that it can provide
good QML support, especially between QML and C++. QtCreator can also
create and deploy Qt projects to mobile devices out of the box, can
CLion do this?

[Thiago Macieira]

Post by Diego Iastrubni

Post by Thiago Macieira
But I have to say I don't feel any unpleasantness. Qt Creator is the best IDE
I've ever used. There are some things I'd do differently, but that's all. I
also expect that's how most Qt developers and especially the Qt Creator
developers feel, so it's highly unlikely we'll do a complete change of
direction.

Without trying to offence, "you need to walk around the neighborhoods" a
little.

Why? It solves the problem for me for developing Qt, why should I spend time
with other tools? Is there any other tool better for developing Qt? Note I
don't care about developing anything else.

Post by Diego Iastrubni
1. XML tags completion for known tags. This can be done for *.UI files,
and maybe some part of *.QS. Basic XML structure is already know - so
even for unknown XML variants - the IDE knows what tag to close.

Don't care, I don't edit XML files.

Post by Diego Iastrubni
2. Class implementations - for example, I derive from an interface and
pressing control+enter on the type will add missing methods.

Isn't this there?

Post by Diego Iastrubni
3. When I define an inline class (Java, but can be done using lambda
expressions in C++), just pressing control+enter will write the code for
AlertDialog.Builder builder = new AlertDialog.Builder(this);
builder.setPositiveButton(android.R.string.ok, new ___
Pressing "control+enter" will create a new anonymous class which
derives new DialogInterface.OnClickListener()

I have no idea what this is for.

Post by Diego Iastrubni
4. When a method argument is an enum, code completion works on the
corresponding enum, and adds the needed type.

Sounds like a very useful feature.

Post by Diego Iastrubni
ListView mListView = findViewById(R.id.notifications_list_view);
it will suggest to typecast to ListView (to fix - again, control+enter).

Sounds like a poor API in the first place.

Post by Diego Iastrubni
6. While debugging the values of variables are displayed inside the text
editor, in light gray (no more looking for them in a panel).

You can do that by holding the Alt key and hovering over the variable, in
Creator. But it sounds like a useful feature too.

Post by Diego Iastrubni
7. When using connect, using Niko's example, I would like to type
connect(button, [clicked], this, [playTheFunkyMusic])
and QtCreator should automagically find the signals of button, and the
corresponding slots of "this". It used to work in ond style Qt4 signals,
but with modern connections, I need to type the whole type. Some signals
are hard to find, for example the "click()" signal from QButton comes
from QAbstractButton. This means that when an object "has/provides" a
signal, I need to guess the parent type which defined the signal in order
connect it (I did not have to know this in Qt4).

Good idea too.

Post by Diego Iastrubni
8. When I am lost "control+enter" usually fixe stuff for me.

That is very vague.

Post by Diego Iastrubni
9. Multiple cursors (see the demo on SublimeText's home page - its epic,
and Atom badly implements it),

Explain. Sounds intriguing.

Post by Diego Iastrubni
Not saying that QtCreator is not good, but blindly claiming it's the best
is not always true. Its even possible that some things are working in
QtC4... I need to re-check at home. I should also open official feature
requests and not complaining on a ML. I agree.

I never claimed it was the best IDE. I claimed it was the best IDE I had ever
used.

[Julius Bullinger]

Post by Thiago Macieira

Post by Diego Iastrubni
9. Multiple cursors (see the demo on SublimeText's home page - its epic,
and Atom badly implements it),

Explain. Sounds intriguing.

It's better shown than explained, see e.g. Loading Image... and Loading Image... for examples.

This is the only feature I'm really missing in Qt Creator, and the reason I keep Sublime open besides Creator all the time.
There's pretty basic multi-cursor functionality in Creator, but it's not quite as polished as Sublime's. Really, you need to try yourself to see how useful it is!

[Curtis Mitch]

-----Original Message-----
project.org] On Behalf Of Julius Bullinger
Sent: Tuesday, 5 April 2016 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Interest] CLion to replace QtCreator?

Post by Thiago Macieira

Post by Diego Iastrubni
9. Multiple cursors (see the demo on SublimeText's home page - its

epic,

Post by Thiago Macieira

Post by Diego Iastrubni
and Atom badly implements it),

Explain. Sounds intriguing.

It's better shown than explained, see e.g.
http://i.stack.imgur.com/TMRK3.gif and
https://packagecontrol.io/readmes/img/d346da37ce3d306f23f960f2a103fbc0f456
2034.gif for examples.
This is the only feature I'm really missing in Qt Creator, and the reason
I keep Sublime open besides Creator all the time.
There's pretty basic multi-cursor functionality in Creator, but it's not
quite as polished as Sublime's. Really, you need to try yourself to see
how useful it is!

Looks interesting, but I find it odd that that is solely enough to warrant keeping another editor open, because you can easily do it in Creator. For renaming instances of a symbol: Ctrl + Shift + R. For stuff like keywords: good old find and replace! :p You can select a bunch of text first to limit it to a certain block.

_______________________________________________
Interest mailing list
http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/interest

[Burak Arslan]

Post by Curtis Mitch

-----Original Message-----
project.org] On Behalf Of Julius Bullinger
Sent: Tuesday, 5 April 2016 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Interest] CLion to replace QtCreator?

Post by Thiago Macieira

Post by Diego Iastrubni
9. Multiple cursors (see the demo on SublimeText's home page - its

epic,

Post by Thiago Macieira

Post by Diego Iastrubni
and Atom badly implements it),

Explain. Sounds intriguing.

It's better shown than explained, see e.g.
http://i.stack.imgur.com/TMRK3.gif and
https://packagecontrol.io/readmes/img/d346da37ce3d306f23f960f2a103fbc0f456
2034.gif for examples.
This is the only feature I'm really missing in Qt Creator, and the reason
I keep Sublime open besides Creator all the time.
There's pretty basic multi-cursor functionality in Creator, but it's not
quite as polished as Sublime's. Really, you need to try yourself to see
how useful it is!

Looks interesting, but I find it odd that that is solely enough to warrant keeping another editor open, because you can easily do it in Creator. For renaming instances of a symbol: Ctrl + Shift + R. For stuff like keywords: good old find and replace! :p You can select a bunch of text first to limit it to a certain block.

You know what I learnt from this thread so far? No one reads the
QtCreator user manual :)

Or I could be using a QtCreator version from the future or something :)

So:

1) [Ctrl+K] : some_function ([column][space]some_function)

searches all (imported) symbols.

2) My QtCreator knows does the right thing when stumbling upon auto,
std::unique_ptr etc and I don't even know which code model I'm using. It
"just worked" for me til today.

3) When you use Alt+Shift to block-select you can perform block edit
like shown in the gifs above.

In Kate, KWrite and friends it's Ctrl+Shift+B to switch selection mode
and same principles start to apply there as well.

4) It's just brain-dead to suggest using a non-Qt ide for Qt. Qt is the
perfect framework for writing an IDE, irrespective of the language
you're aiming for :) JetBrains stuff is only performant in the expense
of a huge memory footprint and relatively longer startup time. This is
of course fine in the age of multi-gigabyte-memory SSD-backed developer
workstations, but don't claim that using Java is NOT a trade-off. No
JetBrains product will work as nicely (or at all) with given only the
resources that Qt Creator is using.

5) Saying "Hey I'm not trying to be hard on [some people] but they suck"
is not less insulting than a straight-up "You suck". I wouldn't expect
the community to fall for this. Come on guys, don't feed the troll :)

Dear Qt Tooling team,

Please ignore the trolls. You are doing a wonderful job. Enjoy the
spring in Berlin :)

Best,
Burak

[Emre Besirik]

Post by Burak Arslan
4) It's just brain-dead to suggest using a non-Qt ide for Qt. Qt is the
perfect framework for writing an IDE, irrespective of the language
you're aiming for :) JetBrains stuff is only performant in the expense
of a huge memory footprint and relatively longer startup time. This is
of course fine in the age of multi-gigabyte-memory SSD-backed developer
workstations, but don't claim that using Java is NOT a trade-off.

I agree here Java is not perfect, it has downsides but after initial startup it definetely pays of

Post by Burak Arslan
5) Saying "Hey I'm not trying to be hard on [some people] but they suck"
is not less insulting than a straight-up "You suck". I wouldn't expect
the community to fall for this. Come on guys, don't feed the troll :)

No I really do NOT mean to insulting anyone, most likely the problem is that the team behind QtCreator is just no UI/UX expert, that doesn’t mean they are bad at their job! this is no trolling...
Keep encoureging previous generation stuff as good and denying improvements is no good to anyone.

Regards,
Emre Besirik

[Curtis Mitch]

-----Original Message-----
project.org] On Behalf Of Burak Arslan
Sent: Tuesday, 5 April 2016 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Interest] CLion to replace QtCreator?

Post by Curtis Mitch

-----Original Message-----
From: Interest
project.org] On Behalf Of Julius Bullinger
Sent: Tuesday, 5 April 2016 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Interest] CLion to replace QtCreator?

Post by Thiago Macieira

Post by Diego Iastrubni
9. Multiple cursors (see the demo on SublimeText's home page - its

epic,

Post by Thiago Macieira

Post by Diego Iastrubni
and Atom badly implements it),

Explain. Sounds intriguing.

It's better shown than explained, see e.g.
http://i.stack.imgur.com/TMRK3.gif and
https://packagecontrol.io/readmes/img/d346da37ce3d306f23f960f2a103fbc
0f456
2034.gif for examples.
This is the only feature I'm really missing in Qt Creator, and the
reason I keep Sublime open besides Creator all the time.
There's pretty basic multi-cursor functionality in Creator, but it's
not quite as polished as Sublime's. Really, you need to try yourself
to see how useful it is!

Looks interesting, but I find it odd that that is solely enough to

warrant keeping another editor open, because you can easily do it in
Creator. For renaming instances of a symbol: Ctrl + Shift + R. For stuff
like keywords: good old find and replace! :p You can select a bunch of
text first to limit it to a certain block.
You know what I learnt from this thread so far? No one reads the QtCreator
user manual :)
Or I could be using a QtCreator version from the future or something :)
1) [Ctrl+K] : some_function ([column][space]some_function)
searches all (imported) symbols.
2) My QtCreator knows does the right thing when stumbling upon auto,
std::unique_ptr etc and I don't even know which code model I'm using. It
"just worked" for me til today.
3) When you use Alt+Shift to block-select you can perform block edit like
shown in the gifs above.
In Kate, KWrite and friends it's Ctrl+Shift+B to switch selection mode and
same principles start to apply there as well.

The GIF seemed to demonstrate some kind of selective editing. I just tried this with the block selection in Creator and it just overwrites the text. Can you give an example of how you can achieve what's done in the GIF using block selection in Creator?

4) It's just brain-dead to suggest using a non-Qt ide for Qt. Qt is the
perfect framework for writing an IDE, irrespective of the language you're
aiming for :) JetBrains stuff is only performant in the expense of a huge
memory footprint and relatively longer startup time. This is of course
fine in the age of multi-gigabyte-memory SSD-backed developer
workstations, but don't claim that using Java is NOT a trade-off. No
JetBrains product will work as nicely (or at all) with given only the
resources that Qt Creator is using.
5) Saying "Hey I'm not trying to be hard on [some people] but they suck"
is not less insulting than a straight-up "You suck". I wouldn't expect the
community to fall for this. Come on guys, don't feed the troll :)
Dear Qt Tooling team,
Please ignore the trolls. You are doing a wonderful job. Enjoy the spring
in Berlin :)
Best,
Burak
_______________________________________________
Interest mailing list
http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/interest

[Nikita Krupenko]

Post by Curtis Mitch
The GIF seemed to demonstrate some kind of selective editing. I just tried this with the block selection in Creator and it just overwrites the text. Can you give an example of how you can achieve what's done in the GIF using block selection in Creator?

Just select zero-width block with Alt and you'll get big cursor where
you can enter some text (i.e. insert without replacing).

[André Somers]

Post by Nikita Krupenko

Post by Curtis Mitch
The GIF seemed to demonstrate some kind of selective editing. I just tried this with the block selection in Creator and it just overwrites the text. Can you give an example of how you can achieve what's done in the GIF using block selection in Creator?

Just select zero-width block with Alt and you'll get big cursor where
you can enter some text (i.e. insert without replacing).

That works, but it is not as flexible as what we see in those gifs. For
instance, you cannot move the cursor left or right or make the same edit
on multiple lines that are not vertically aligned.

It seems that the examples show something like that, and that would be
quite powerfull.

André

[Alejandro Exojo]

Post by André Somers
That works, but it is not as flexible as what we see in those gifs. For
instance, you cannot move the cursor left or right or make the same edit
on multiple lines that are not vertically aligned.

That's what you miss for not using FakeVim. ;-)

[André Somers]

Post by Alejandro Exojo

Post by André Somers
That works, but it is not as flexible as what we see in those gifs. For
instance, you cannot move the cursor left or right or make the same edit
on multiple lines that are not vertically aligned.

That's what you miss for not using FakeVim. ;-)

That might very well be it. :-)

So... the FakeVim can do that trick?

André

[Thiago Macieira]

Post by Julius Bullinger

Post by Thiago Macieira

Post by Diego Iastrubni
9. Multiple cursors (see the demo on SublimeText's home page - its epic,
and Atom badly implements it),

Explain. Sounds intriguing.

It's better shown than explained, see e.g.
http://i.stack.imgur.com/TMRK3.gif and
https://packagecontrol.io/readmes/img/d346da37ce3d306f23f960f2a103fbc0f4562
034.gif for examples.

Interesting. I'd have worked around the issue by selecting the block and
telling Creator to replace "var " with "var _".

[André Somers]

Post by Julius Bullinger

Post by Thiago Macieira

Post by Diego Iastrubni
9. Multiple cursors (see the demo on SublimeText's home page - its epic,
and Atom badly implements it),

Explain. Sounds intriguing.

It's better shown than explained, see e.g. http://i.stack.imgur.com/TMRK3.gif and https://packagecontrol.io/readmes/img/d346da37ce3d306f23f960f2a103fbc0f4562034.gif for examples.
This is the only feature I'm really missing in Qt Creator, and the reason I keep Sublime open besides Creator all the time.
There's pretty basic multi-cursor functionality in Creator, but it's not quite as polished as Sublime's. Really, you need to try yourself to see how useful it is!

I like it, and added a feature request for it:
https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTCREATORBUG-16013

André

[Prav]

Post by André Somers

Post by Julius Bullinger
This is the only feature I'm really missing in Qt Creator, and the reason I keep Sublime open besides Creator all the time.
There's pretty basic multi-cursor functionality in Creator, but it's not quite as polished as Sublime's. Really, you need to try yourself to see how useful it is!

https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTCREATORBUG-16013

Great!

So now may someone (Thiago Macieira?) can help us find best place at wiki.qt.io to make wiki-page where we would add our
feature-requests and bug-reports which are about things which are better implemented in CLion?


Let's move to constructive path !

[ekke]

Post by Prav

Post by André Somers

Post by Julius Bullinger
This is the only feature I'm really missing in Qt Creator, and the reason I keep Sublime open besides Creator all the time.
There's pretty basic multi-cursor functionality in Creator, but it's not quite as polished as Sublime's. Really, you need to try yourself to see how useful it is!

https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTCREATORBUG-16013

Great!
So now may someone (Thiago Macieira?) can help us find best place at wiki.qt.io to make wiki-page where we would add our
feature-requests and bug-reports which are about things which are better implemented in CLion?

I wouldn't restrict it to CLion, but to 'other IDEs'

There are some workflows for mobile app development much smoother in
Eclipse Momentics IDE for BlackBerry Cascades/Qt 4.8 development.

I learned much about QtCreator from replies to this thread and want to
become more experienced with QtC before creating Issues or FeatureRequests.

Post by Prav
Let's move to constructive path !
_______________________________________________
Interest mailing list
http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/interest

[Prav]

Post by ekke

Post by Prav
So now may someone (Thiago Macieira?) can help us find best place at wiki.qt.io to make wiki-page where we would add our
feature-requests and bug-reports which are about things which are better implemented in CLion?

I wouldn't restrict it to CLion, but to 'other IDEs'

Good point ... If later the wiki-page would become too large that would be a reson to split it into like "Clion" and "Eclipse Momentics"

Post by ekke
I learned much about QtCreator from replies to this thread and want to
become more experienced with QtC before creating Issues or FeatureRequests.

If you want to be more experienced with QtC you would say like ...
Does anyone know how to do this or that in QtC?

If you say "QtC is eons behind Eclipse Momentics" is totally another story. This is statement of opinion (not a question).
And most posts in this thread were like this ... which is unconstructive.

So if you ask for help it seems fine for mailing list. But in this case you better start new thread ...
so not to make this one a real mess.

Post by ekke
There are some workflows for mobile app development much smoother in
Eclipse Momentics IDE for BlackBerry Cascades/Qt 4.8 development.

OK. This is not a question. This is statement. So fill the feature-request.

[ekke]

Post by Prav

Post by ekke

Post by Prav
So now may someone (Thiago Macieira?) can help us find best place at wiki.qt.io to make wiki-page where we would add our
feature-requests and bug-reports which are about things which are better implemented in CLion?

I wouldn't restrict it to CLion, but to 'other IDEs'

Good point ... If later the wiki-page would become too large that would be a reson to split it into like "Clion" and "Eclipse Momentics"

Post by ekke
I learned much about QtCreator from replies to this thread and want to
become more experienced with QtC before creating Issues or FeatureRequests.

If you want to be more experienced with QtC you would say like ...
Does anyone know how to do this or that in QtC?

I just started exploring Qt after 4 years BB10 Cascades APPs
Using QtCreator as daily IDE for first projects with Qt 5.6
qt.labs.controls for Android + iOS will help me
also writing my blogs about Qt for Mobile
(https://appbus.wordpress.com/2016/04/05/qt-for-x-platform-mobile-development/)

Post by Prav
If you say "QtC is eons behind Eclipse Momentics" is totally another story. This is statement of opinion (not a question).
And most posts in this thread were like this ... which is unconstructive.

I never would say this.
I appreciate the work of QtCreator-devs
QtCreator cannot be compared directly to other IDE's because Qt supports
so many different targets
Per ex. Eclipse Momentics supports BlackBerry 10 Devices where QtCreator
has to support Android, iOS, ...

Post by Prav
So if you ask for help it seems fine for mailing list. But in this case you better start new thread ...
so not to make this one a real mess.

Post by ekke
There are some workflows for mobile app development much smoother in
Eclipse Momentics IDE for BlackBerry Cascades/Qt 4.8 development.

OK. This is not a question. This is statement. So fill the feature-request.

will do so, but wait some weeks. perhaps I overlooked some features or
HowTo-use-QtCreator

ekke

Post by Prav
_______________________________________________
Interest mailing list
http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/interest

[André Pönitz]

Post by ekke
There are some workflows for mobile app development much smoother in
Eclipse Momentics IDE for BlackBerry Cascades/Qt 4.8 development.
I learned much about QtCreator from replies to this thread and want to
become more experienced with QtC before creating Issues or FeatureRequests.

I personally think it's not *that* a big deal if there's an invalid feature
request every now and then (because e.g. already implemented, but not obviously
accessible). In some cases even those are useful to improve documentation
or making features better discoverable.

Just make sure you don't create too many of them by searching for existing
reports before you file one, but generally I think it's better to have
everything in one system (i.e. bugreports.qt-project.org) instead of spreading
things over multiple places.

Andre'

[André Pönitz]

Post by Prav

Post by André Somers

Post by Julius Bullinger
This is the only feature I'm really missing in Qt Creator, and the reason I
keep Sublime open besides Creator all the time. There's pretty basic
multi-cursor functionality in Creator, but it's not quite as polished as
Sublime's. Really, you need to try yourself to see how useful it is!

https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTCREATORBUG-16013

Great!
So now may someone (Thiago Macieira?) can help us find best place at
wiki.qt.io to make wiki-page where we would add our feature-requests and
bug-reports which are about things which are better implemented in CLion?

bugreports.qt-project.org is the place for Qt Creator feature requests
(Component "Qt Creator") where developers will actually read it.

Andre'

[Bob Hood]

Post by Emre Besirik
Hello list,
I know its a little bit off-topic but I was wondering your ideas about the
unpleasentness of coding with QtCreator (no offense, I respect the creators
of the original IDE but..)
So there is this; https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/CPP-318 (in case you
didn’t know already) do you support it?
Do you also find it a littlebit unpleasent to code in QtCreator like me?

Actually, no I don't. Quite the contrary. It has actually saved me when I've
had to leave Visual Studio to work on OS X and Linux, because--with the right
keyboard mapping--it is the closest cross-platform thing I've yet found to the
"feel" of Visual Studio, where I spend most of my days.

So, I do not agree with you at all. In may ways, I consider QtCreator to be
my home-away-from-home.

[Bob Hood]

Post by Emre Besirik
Hello list,
I know its a little bit off-topic but I was wondering your ideas about the
unpleasentness of coding with QtCreator (no offense, I respect the
creators of the original IDE but..)
So there is this; https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/CPP-318 (in case
you didn’t know already) do you support it?
Do you also find it a littlebit unpleasent to code in QtCreator like me?

Actually, no I don't. Quite the contrary. It has actually saved me when
I've had to leave Visual Studio to work on OS X and Linux, because--with
the right keyboard mapping--it is the closest cross-platform thing I've yet
found to the "feel" of Visual Studio, where I spend most of my days.
So, I do not agree with you at all. In may ways, I consider QtCreator to
be my home-away-from-home.

Have you ever tried ANY jetbrains product? I do mean just for few days but
really trying...

I have used PyCharm, but honestly, having a separate IDE just for Python is
not practical since I can develop/debug Python right along side C/C++ in
Visual Studio using an add-in. If I needed to do so on a non-Windows
platform, then I might not necessarily choose QtCreator.

I'm not saying the JetBrains wares are not good--quite the contrary--but since
I'm a Qt developer, and I have used Visual Studio for decades, the choice of
QtCreator for non-Windows platforms is a no-brainer. And it's free, just like
JetBrains' offerings (with the right license).

But be aware that you're talking to somebody who has written whole
applications using nothing but vi and a command prompt. I'm certainly not a
/connoisseur/of IDEs. ;)

[Christian Quast]

Post by Bob Hood
But be aware that you're talking to somebody who has written whole
applications using nothing but vi and a command prompt. I'm certainly
not a /connoisseur/of IDEs. ;)

and I think this is the most important difference in ones opinion about
QtCreator. If I remember correctly, its developers, at the very
beginning, stated that they wanted to develop a lightweight IDE that is
more a fancy text editor and, therefore, keeps out of your way.

I personally find it much more convenient to use than lets say
VisualStudio or Eclipse (for me personally a totally overloaded IDE,
just look at the right click menu). Than again, I currently develop
using Kate (a 'simple' text editor) so my opinion is biased.

However, there, are some annoyances: for me the biggest is refactoring
in VI mode (the most important feature of an editor ever! :) ), which
got a lot better but its still not as good as without VI mode enabled.

Also c++11 'auto' is confusing the IDE, but that might have changed
recently.


best
Christian

[Prav]

Does anyone here think that discussion of this question in current way would not help anyone?
We are programmer ... not philosophers. So ideas like "eons away from QtC" is non-understandable
(like infinity) so not profitable for our lives.

As I can get:
There are some things which make some people feel not so comfortable comparing to what they feel
when they work in another IDE. And those people want QtC be better. So why would not we agree
that those who feel bad with some aspects of QtC would first create are bug-report or feature-suggestion
at https://bugreports.qt.io/ site and ONLY after that say what he misses from QtC here.

I would also suggest to make a list of those things which make QtC not as good as CLion
... somewhere ... for example at https://wiki.qt.io/
Everybody who feels missing features would be welcome to add its bug-report (or feature-request) to this
list. And that would give everybody clear understanding what does "eons away" means.
This list can also play the role of "list of little shame" for Qt-developers so that they would be more active
to try to fix those bugs or implement feature requests (which is as I can get is the main purpose for someone
to say that QtC is "eons away from CLion").

As the result this discussion would benefit those who implement QtC (because they have exact questions) and
those who ask QtC developer be more active in making them feel better in process usage of QtC.

I am not in QtC fun-club.
For example my bug
https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTCREATORBUG-14464
was reported like 1 year ago and it says that renaming refactoring can change the code so that it
is hard (almost impossible) to revert it back to “compilable” state. I am always in fear during every renaming refactoring in QtC
(because project-wide renaming refactoring is irreversible in QtC so Ctrl-Z would not help ;) ).
And I really do not know where to see how valuable this bug in priority list for fixes for next QtC release ! :(
I feel problems too.

Nor I am against QtC. Because it integrates GUI editor and help for Qt functions better than CLion or VisualStudio.
I like its "several split"-idea with shortcuts like "follow symbol in the next split" (which is absent in VisualStudio or CLion … as I know).


So maybe we better to discuss how exactly we would make flow of critics from CLion users to be precise
and helpful for both-sides? And only after setting rules for that we would start discuss critics itself ...
because after that there would be real things to discuss ... but not only heap of opinions in our mailing boxes.


Sorry for being so detailed in this letter. I was so wondered that we keep this long discussion in such unprofitable way.

[Emre Besirik]

Post by Prav
Does anyone here think that discussion of this question in current way would not help anyone?
We are programmer ... not philosophers. So ideas like "eons away from QtC" is non-understandable
(like infinity) so not profitable for our lives.
There are some things which make some people feel not so comfortable comparing to what they feel
when they work in another IDE. And those people want QtC be better. So why would not we agree
that those who feel bad with some aspects of QtC would first create are bug-report or feature-suggestion
at https://bugreports.qt.io/ site and ONLY after that say what he misses from QtC here.
I would also suggest to make a list of those things which make QtC not as good as CLion
... somewhere ... for example at https://wiki.qt.io/
Everybody who feels missing features would be welcome to add its bug-report (or feature-request) to this
list. And that would give everybody clear understanding what does "eons away" means.
This list can also play the role of "list of little shame" for Qt-developers so that they would be more active
to try to fix those bugs or implement feature requests (which is as I can get is the main purpose for someone
to say that QtC is "eons away from CLion").
As the result this discussion would benefit those who implement QtC (because they have exact questions) and
those who ask QtC developer be more active in making them feel better in process usage of QtC.
I am not in QtC fun-club.
For example my bug
https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTCREATORBUG-14464
was reported like 1 year ago and it says that renaming refactoring can change the code so that it
is hard (almost impossible) to revert it back to “compilable” state. I am always in fear during every renaming refactoring in QtC
(because project-wide renaming refactoring is irreversible in QtC so Ctrl-Z would not help ;) ).
And I really do not know where to see how valuable this bug in priority list for fixes for next QtC release ! :(
I feel problems too.
Nor I am against QtC. Because it integrates GUI editor and help for Qt functions better than CLion or VisualStudio.
I like its "several split"-idea with shortcuts like "follow symbol in the next split" (which is absent in VisualStudio or CLion … as I know).
So maybe we better to discuss how exactly we would make flow of critics from CLion users to be precise
and helpful for both-sides? And only after setting rules for that we would start discuss critics itself ...
because after that there would be real things to discuss ... but not only heap of opinions in our mailing boxes.
Sorry for being so detailed in this letter. I was so wondered that we keep this long discussion in such unprofitable way.

That I can agree with! Thank you for your more cunstructive comments on the issue. All I wanted from the start of this thread was at least please agree on that it is not perfect, there is really room for improvement and lets discuss on what we can do together? instead allmost all I get was "why don’t you do it your self", "I’m happy", "if you don’t like it don’t use it" kind of responses…
I don’t mean the JB products are perfect but many developers around the world will agree that they are at least trying to ease the jobs of developers more than any other and most importantly they are trying to make coding a joy. We may be loving our jobs already but isn’t it better to feel joy when we use our everyday tools?


Regards,
Emre Beşirik
***@gmail.com

[Thiago Macieira]

Post by Emre Besirik
Thank you for your more cunstructive comments on the issue. All I wanted
from the start of this thread was at least please agree on that it is not
perfect, there is really room for improvement and lets discuss on what we
can do together? instead allmost all I get was "why don’t you do it your
self", "I’m happy", "if you don’t like it don’t use it" kind of responses…

Then please reread the first two emails of this thread: your OP and my first
reply.

Post by Emre Besirik

Post by Emre Besirik
Do you also find it a littlebit unpleasent to code in QtCreator like me?
Does Qt plan to do something about this?

It would be more constructive if you explained what your issues are and what
you findto be unpleasant. Without that, nothing is ever going to happen.

[Emre Besirik]

Post by Thiago Macieira

Post by Emre Besirik
Thank you for your more cunstructive comments on the issue. All I wanted
from the start of this thread was at least please agree on that it is not
perfect, there is really room for improvement and lets discuss on what we
can do together? instead allmost all I get was "why don’t you do it your
self", "I’m happy", "if you don’t like it don’t use it" kind of responses


Then please reread the first two emails of this thread: your OP and my first
reply.

Post by Emre Besirik

Post by Emre Besirik
Do you also find it a littlebit unpleasent to code in QtCreator like me?
Does Qt plan to do something about this?

It would be more constructive if you explained what your issues are and what
you findto be unpleasant. Without that, nothing is ever going to happen.

First we needed to agree that that QtC is not perfect and there is room for improvement. And even then there is the issue of hard to explain + a lot of improvements. Then I found an old intellij video and shared that instead which was easier to show than explain.

http://youtu.be/eq3KiAH4IBI — if you have time to watch it

if you can watch it maybe you can understand me better when I say pleasure of coding when those small things add up.

Regards,
Emre Besirik

[Prav]

Post by André Pönitz
bugreports.qt-project.org is the place for Qt Creator feature requests
(Component "Qt Creator") where developers will actually read it.

Ok, André Pönitz. But the point of creation of this list is also to say how many (or may be few) features is better in CLion.
So we need not an invidual bugs but list of them.
If bugreports.qt-project.org have a way to get such a list ... let's use only bugreports.qt-project.org.
Could you share how we can get list like this inside bugreports.qt-project.org ?

For example, I do not know how to get priority list for bugs-fixes for QtC 4.0.0 release. I mean bugs which were
decided to be fixed before it is possible to say that QtC 4.0.0 release is ready.

Post by André Pönitz
but generally I think it's better to have
everything in one system (i.e. bugreports.qt-project.org) instead of spreading
things over multiple places.

Ok ... if we can use bugreports.qt-project.org why not.
How to use it to get this list? May be we can create tag for this special purpuse ... or something else?
Let's decide how to manage people's criticism constructively.

[Prav]

Post by Emre Besirik
Thats not so easy for my part because I think whats lacking is a
complete makeover…

..

Post by Emre Besirik
We need at least one UI/UX expert to work on QtC to
shape things as user friendly as possible...

..

Post by Emre Besirik

Post by Prav
Emre Besirik, could you please change the style you discuss things here?

Can you please be a little more specific?

Use bugreports.qt.io first, and then write here.

Nobody would rewrite the whole UI from gound up just because your opinion is that you feel bad about it.
But you keep repeating your message again and again ... may be this is because you think that QtC developers does not hear you.
But probably they hear ... but not agree. So if you want them to agree with you give real resons.
Which means fill feature-requests. If there would be so many real examples where CLion is better ... this is
the data to think about.

Nothing else would work for your intention (exept if your intention is trolling us here).